[Alt-photo] salted paper

Christina Z. Anderson christinazanderson at gmail.com
Fri Apr 29 15:34:27 UTC 2016


No, no need to yet, Bob, because I have the Fotospeed and it has not exhausted yet, but I have all the ingredients on hand.

One thing I have noticed in the close to 50 salt sources I have read is that the toning recipes are more consistent unlike the salting solutions which are all over the board. Gold borax, gold thiourea, gold am thio, selenium, platinum...

There was a LOT of gold toning going on because it was used always with POP and albumen the latter which superseded “plain” aka salted paper.

You can do the googling yourself on books.google.com and find lots of the old books there, scanned, and downloadable for free to your iPad if you have one. I got 235 results googling gold thiourea toner on this site just now, for instance.

I’ve got Tim’s toning book somewhere here; he would be the one to ask about toning.

I’m not shy about mixing chemistry but when it involves a gram of gold then I think carefully to do so only when I need it. But considering a gram of gold makes 100ml of 1%, it’s about 45¢ a ml x 12 = $5.40 for this formula.
Chris

On Apr 29, 2016, at 9:13 AM, bobkiss caribsurf.com via Alt-photo-process-list <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org> wrote:

> DEAR CHRISTINA,
> 
>     Well done and silly me!  I saw the MSDS for AU20 on Digital Truth but ignored it! Mea culpa maxima!  I also sent an email to Tim Rudman to see if he had any insight to the formula.  But I think you have it.  Have you tried this formula and compared results to your prints toned in FOTOSPEED GOLD TONER AU20?
> 
>                        CHEERS!
>                               BOB
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org" <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
> To: "alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org" <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
> Cc: "Christina Anderson" <christinazanderson at gmail.com>
> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 10:54:10 AM
> Subject: Re: [Alt-photo] salted paper
> 
> Thanks Dan for the plausible explanation! What I will do today is coat with more silver and see if I have nary a problem. Sized 25 sheets yesterday, 5 of which just plain salt (no ammonium chloride no sodium citrate).
> 
> Bob, I was bummed to hear about Fotospeed too; there is Tetanal but it is like $99 so here is the formula, possibly, because I googled the MSDS sheet for Fotospeed and found it was a thiourea based toner.
> Chris
> 
> Gold-thiourea toner
> 
> 12ml gold chloride (1% solution)
> 
> 12ml thiourea (1% solution)
> 
> 12ml tartaric acid (10% solution)
> 
> 5g sodium chloride
> 
> Distilled water to make 250ml
> 
> Add the thiourea solution to the gold chloride solution until the precipitate that forms is dissolved. Add the tartaric acid to 150ml of the distilled water. Add the gold, thiourea solution to the tartaric acid solution and mix thoroughly. Add the sodium chloride and water to make 250ml. Solution is ready for use, but also keeps well.
> 
> 
> 
> On Apr 29, 2016, at 7:01 AM, Dan Estabrook via Alt-photo-process-list <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org> wrote:
> 
>> Christina,
>> 
>> Looking at your student's print, I will say with 99% certainty that it is simply a coating issue, and not any silver chloride build-up. (I mean, if it was AgCl building up at that point in the print, wouldn't it "drag" throughout the rest of the coating...?)
>> 
>> Note that when I say the ratio of salt to silver is key, that it is not always too much salt in the first layer that causes problems—it can also be too little silver! This is what I think is happening here. I would guess that your (likely right-handed!) student dipped the brush in silver and started coating from the top left (either horizontally or vertically) and changed directions for another pass, after dipping the brush once again. In either case, by the time the brush got to the middle-right of the paper, it was too dry. Look at the difference between the top-left corner and the bottom right and note the density difference. To fix this, just make sure to dip more often, say at the start and at the halfway point of an 8x10 print, and again when switching directions. Really, you want as much silver on there without causing pools of excess (another problem entirely!)
>> 
>> Some people are just more heavy-handed than others. You may already note the students who flood the paper and get silver everywhere, and the others who work in tiny little careful rectangles. One tip: even if a student wants to make small 4x5-ish prints, have them coat a larger piece of paper and cut it down; it's much easier to make a smooth coating with a little room to work.
>> 
>> xDan
>> 
>>> You are saying that these areas of white are an excess of salt in that area in comparison to silver, which is much less sensitive.  Schaefer is saying it is disturbing the salted layer when sensitizing (e.g. brushing too firmly or whatnot) so it mingles with the wet silver nitrate to create this silver chloride “smudge."
>>> 
>>> Here’s my conundrum: I uploaded a student print here: http://christinaanderson.visualserver.com/Text_page.cfm?pID=6523
>>> which shows a very visible brush streak the exact size and width of my 3” hake brush. I don’t use that hake brush to salt the paper, so it’s not the sizing step that places too much salt there. If I understand correctly there would be excess salt in that particular sharp shape of brush stroke if he brushed so hard there was less remaining silver in that spot, which in essence increased the salt to silver ratio. 
>>> 
>>> But  it still seems odd that the unevenness of silver in that spot wouldn’t be visible with the blue food coloring. Gray, btw, and Schaefer, did the coating with cotton stuffed in a test tube thing on a plexi sheet at a 45º angle to avoid this issue. 
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