[Alt-photo] oxalate ferric problem

Marek Matusz marekmatusz at hotmail.com
Sat Mar 5 20:37:36 UTC 2016


I'm sorry. Did u heat the solution. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 5, 2016, at 2:25 PM, Marek Matusz via Alt-photo-process-list <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org> wrote:
> 
> Did you hear the solution. I usually microwave until it gets hot. Maybe 2-3 times
> Marek
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Mar 5, 2016, at 2:17 PM, jusdado via Alt-photo-process-list <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> El 22/02/16 a las 00:04, Keith Schreiber via Alt-photo-process-list escribió:
>>> My apology Bob, my statement was unclear and incomplete. I realize that Eric’s suggestion was regarding the B&S powder. I just thought it was of interest to note that he makes his own. It’s a fairly complicated and potentially messy process. I don’t know if he is still on this list, but I’m sure I saved that info somewhere.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> Keith
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 21, 2016, at 3:10 PM, bobkiss caribsurf.com via Alt-photo-process-list <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> DEAR KEITH,
>>>> 
>>>>    Actually, Eric's recommendation applied to FO that I had bought from B&S.
>>>> 
>>>>                         CHEERS!
>>>>                               BOB
>>>> 
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org" <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
>>>> To: "alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org" <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
>>>> Cc: "Keith Schreiber" <keith at jkschreiber.com>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2016 6:05:00 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Alt-photo] oxalate ferric problem
>>>> 
>>>> If I remember right, Eric makes his ferric oxalate from scratch. It’s been a while but I’m pretty sure he has posted here about his process.
>>>> 
>>>> My standard FO recipe has been the same as what Clay just posted for many years. Usually it goes into solution within 2-3 hours, but occasionally it doesn’t. It may be due to age as Clay suggests. A week or 2 ago I encountered just that problem - it wouldn’t go completely in to solution no matter what. I think that bottle was 2 or 3 years old. I talked to Dana at B&S about it and he sent me some fresh FO, both liquid so I could get right back to work, and powder. The FO from B&S does not have any additives, but there is nothing to stop us from adding our own.
>>>> 
>>>> I was able to get about 20ml out of an attempted 25ml of plain FO, and about 75ml of solution (with OA and EDTA) out of my last attempt at making 100ml. I tested them against the fresh liquid from B&S and found no difference with the plain, and slightly but noticeably lower Dmax with the additives (1.36 cf 1.30 on COT320); slightly higher speed with the additives; and no difference in density range.
>>>> 
>>>> So my conclusion from this unintended experiment is that you should be okay to decant and/or filter out the solution you have from the undissolved powder, particularly if you haven’t added anything else to it.
>>>> 
>>>> ~ Keith
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 21, 2016, at 2:33 PM, Clay Harmon via Alt-photo-process-list <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> My experience is that as the ferric oxalate ages it becomes harder is it to dissolve.
>>>>> 
>>>>> My recipe is
>>>>> 
>>>>> 27g ferric oxalate
>>>>> 4g oxalic acid
>>>>> 2g tetrasodium EDTA
>>>>> 
>>>>> in 100ml of 80degC water.  I use a magnetic stirring mixer and stir constantly for a few hours. If it is not dissolved after that, I put the beaker in a 80degC water bath after letting it rest for about an hour and then continue stirring. That almost always gets it into solution.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have some three year old ferric that I dissolved a few weeks ago and it took almost 24 hours!
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -Clay
>>>>>> On Feb 21, 2016, at 4:14 PM, bobkiss caribsurf.com via Alt-photo-process-list <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I aqree with Keith that you must start with 80C water but, even so, I still find it takes DAYS to completely dissolve.  If you are using this as soln A for PT/PD printing, at the advice of Eric Nielsen, I have added a half a gram of Oxalic Acid at a time, every 4 hours and found that it accelerated the dissolving process.  I think I have added up to 2.5 g of Ox Ac (I will have to check my notes tomorrow) and it had no ill effect on my prints.  Diana Bloomfield has seen some of my prints and can confirm that I get very good Dmax.
>>>>>> Some have suggested that adding a very small amount of EDTA (starting with 0.5 g) can aid dissolving but others suggest that it actually inhibits it.  I would stick with adding incremental amounts of Ox Ac.
>>>>>>           CHEERS!
>>>>>>                   BOB
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org" <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
>>>>>> To: "alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org" <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
>>>>>> Cc: "Keith Schreiber" <keith at jkschreiber.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2016 4:04:02 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Alt-photo] oxalate ferric problem
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> You must start with water at ~ 80°C or just below boiling. Heating after will not work. At this point you should start over.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Feb 21, 2016, at 12:52 PM, jusdado via Alt-photo-process-list <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> El 21/02/16 a las 20:47, Keith Schreiber via Alt-photo-process-list escribió:
>>>>>>>> What temperature did you start at?
>>>>>>> I started this morning with water at room temperature, it may 12ºC.
>>>>>>> Then I went to heating (maria bath) at 50ºC and removimendo, lower the temperature at 25ºC, I warm to 50 ° C and stirring. So all afternoon. Patience.
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>> 
>> 2nd attempt to dissolve ferric oxalate. 100 cc. distilled water at 80 / 90C. + 20 gr. ferric oxalate added slowly stirring constantly. After 2 hours, all the ferric oxalate in the container with water and stirring + 0.5 gr. oxalic acid. 2 more hour and + 0.5g. oxalic acid and stirring. 2 more hours and + 0.5 g oxalic acid and stirring. When the stirring stops, deep yellow mud, up, water with a yellowish color.
>> I'll let you all night continuously agitated.
>> Ferric oxalate never reaches its complete dissolution ?.
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