[Alt-photo] Antwort: Re: Antwort: Re: Dichromates, REACH and the EU

John Brewer john at johnbrewerphotography.com
Tue Sep 20 13:58:34 UTC 2016


Hi Udo

-it will be more or less at the "good will" of the local authorities-

I do understand what you are saying here but having the back up of my
supplier and Sigma plus genuinely doing research with my practice I believe
I fulfil the requirements. Having spoken on the phone and explaining my
situation to REACH since the email they are in agreement. Of course the
problem which REACH really doesn't address is the fact although it's EU
legislation it's individual governments that are involved too which makes
it harder. Before the sunset date I will put in writing my get in writing
what they have said to me

What road are you going down?

Interesting article re the hexavalent - trivalent salt reduction. How do
you dispose of? I just return mine to my supplier as hexavalent.

John

On 20 September 2016 at 13:27, BJ68 via Alt-photo-process-list <
alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org> wrote:

> Dear John,
>
> okay this kind of argumentation may be a possible way to deal with this
> issue.
> But IMHO it will be more or less at the "good will" of the local
> authorities and in German there is a saying that goes 'before the court and
> on the high sea one is in God's hands', because you don´t really know the
> outcome. We will see it after September 2017, when the sunset date is
> over....
>
> Btw. found a nice and cheap way to reduce the toxicity of the Cr(VI):
> Reduction to Cr(III) with a solution of ascorbic acid see this posting:
> http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?129525-
> Dichromate-Waste-Treatment
>
> Udo
>
>
>
>
> -----"Alt-photo-process-list" <alt-photo-process-list-
> bounces at lists.altphotolist.org> schrieb: -----
> An: The alternative photographic processes mailing list <
> alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
> Von: John Brewer via Alt-photo-process-list
> Gesendet von: "Alt-photo-process-list"
> Datum: 20.09.2016 13:43
> Kopie: John Brewer <john at johnbrewerphotography.com>
> Betreff: Re: [Alt-photo] Antwort: Re: Dichromates, REACH and the EU
>
> Hi Udo
>
> With regard to buying chromium salts I'll be buying mine from an
> intermediary that deals with Sigma UK. Sigma seems to have offices in every
> EU country so it doesn't need to be bought from outside the EU.
>
> It's not a problem for me in the UK to use after speaking to the
> authorities here and my supplier who has also spoken to Sigma by phone and
> email. SRD can be varying the amount of chromium salts in each print,
> different sizing, paper &c which I do pretty much all the time, I'm always
> experimenting like I guess most gum printers. Another thing with SRD is
> obtaining references, old and new for research such as 19th century texts
> up to and including Christina's new book. Trying to get accurate
> repeatability is also SRD for example. What IS important that all records
> and notes are kept very carefully. The way I intend to do this is by, at
> the sunset date, record the quantity of salts I have. I'll then use a
> spreadsheet to note how much I use accurately. Other notes that I will keep
> is the return of dry waste to my supplier. The important thing is to be
> meticulous with note and record keeping. Keeping stock of chromium salts is
> also a very sensible idea I think. I use less than 50g a year, nearer 10g.
>
> Trying to go down the REACH registration route is logistically and
> financially a nightmare. I don't see it as an option. The first port of
> call and I'm sure you've already done this, is to contact your supplier,
> get them to contact theirs, contact your county's REACH offices and ask
> their advice. That's what I've done.
>
> As the end product, the print, doesn't contain any chromium I don't see
> that selling images in anyway is an issue.
>
> Just my thoughts
>
> John
>
> On 20 September 2016 at 04:58, BJ68 via Alt-photo-process-list <
> alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org> wrote:
>
> > Dear Laura,
> >
> > would be nice if it where the whole thing so easy....
> >
> > a) If you buy dichromates outside of the EU and you import this compound,
> > then you need the authorization from the ECHA (European Chemicals
> Agency),
> > because the import is deemed as "placing on the market". See points 10 to
> > 12 at page 33 at http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/en/TXT/PDF/?uri=
> > CELEX:02006R1907-20160401
> > In Germany there is the §27b ChemG http://www.gesetze-im-
> > internet.de/chemg/__27b.html which criminalizes any import without
> > authorization.
> >
> > b) SRD: The problem with this approach will be, that you can not be sure
> > how the whole thing will be handled, if you be on trial or how the
> > authorities will react, if somebody report you or if they investigate
> > against you.
> > It depends how your government had implemented the REACH regulation in
> > local law and how strict law courts will handle this issue. The general
> > problem with this approach can be, that if you sell prints, your work can
> > be not classified as SRD. It´s like the Japanese whale hunting issue,
> they
> > say its science, but they sell the meat at the Japanese market....so
> only a
> > minority thinks this is science.
> >
> > Udo
> >
> >
> > PS: If you are interested to discuss this issue further, you are invited
> > to join https://ivntforum.phoerauf.de/index.php
> > Until now is mostly German, but there would be no problem to switch to
> > English.
> > Important: If you join please write to udo.schnitzbauer[ad]uzh.ch with
> > your pseudonym, because I have to activate every user.
> >
> >
> >
> > -----"Alt-photo-process-list" <alt-photo-process-list-
> > bounces at lists.altphotolist.org> schrieb: -----
> > An: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
> > Von: Laura V via Alt-photo-process-list
> > Gesendet von: "Alt-photo-process-list"
> > Datum: 17.09.2016 20:32
> > Kopie: Laura V <laura at lavatop.com>
> > Betreff: Re: [Alt-photo] Dichromates, REACH and the EU
> >
> > Thanks John...so we are scientists now and not artists?
> >
> > Laura
> >
> > On 9/17/16 4:05 PM, John Brewer via Alt-photo-process-list wrote:
> > > Hello dichromate users
> > >
> > > I wrote to the UK Health and Safety Executive a while ago and received
> > the reply below. As a tutor, practitioner and supplier of some alt
> process
> > chemistry I can buy dichromates without filling out the crazy form as it
> > can be used for 'research and development'. Note that doesn't mean I can
> > supply. I forwarded this email to my supplier who deals directly with
> Sigma
> > and they have no problem selling it to me provided it's in small
> > quantities. I'm not sure if this will apply to individuals but it's worth
> > quoting the information below to your supplier.
> > >
> > > I hope the email below helps some of you European dichromate users.
> > >
> > > Best wishes
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > > Dear John,
> > >
> > > As you note, potassium chromate is listed in Annex XIV of REACH and is
> > therefore subject to authorisation. The sunset date for potassium
> > dichromate is 21 September 2017. After this date, it will not be
> permitted
> > for a company (including self-employed individuals) to use the substance
> in
> > the EU, or place the substance on the market for a use, unless they have
> > authorisation from the European Commission. It is technically challenging
> > and expensive to apply for authorisation.
> > >
> > > The ideal option beyond the sunset date would be to use a viable, safer
> > alternative to potassium dichromate. Perhaps this has already been
> > addressed in your industry? It may be worth talking to other painters
> > and/or a relevant trade association to find out if others have already
> > considered this issue and the approach they are taking.
> > >
> > > Alternatively, especially as you use such a low volume, you might
> > consider whether any of the exemptions from authorisation might apply
> here.
> > They can be found in our bitesize leaflet on authorisation (leaflet
> number
> > 19 at:  http://www.hse.gov.uk/reach/bitesize.htm). For example, Article
> > 56(3) is clear that authorisation does not apply to the use of substances
> > for scientific research and development (SRD).
> > >
> > > You mention that you are a tutor. It is possible that your use of the
> > substance (as a tutor) could be considered as SRD. SRD is a defined term
> in
> > REACH [Article 3(23)] as “scientific research and development: means any
> > scientific experimentation, analysis or chemical research carried out
> under
> > controlled conditions in a volume less than 1 tonne per year”.
> > > ·         As well as covering chemical research, it also applies to
> > scientific experimentation or analysis;
> > >
> > > ·         The definition includes an ‘or’ and an ‘any’ so logically,
> the
> > ‘any’ applies to all three terms in the list; i.e., any scientific
> > experimentation, any analysis, and any chemical research;
> > >
> > >
> > > However, it would be for you (and others who use chromium compounds in
> a
> > similar way) to decide whether your use meets any of the exemptions.
> Should
> > you decide to continue to use the substance after the sunset date, we
> would
> > recommend that you document any decisions made in case you are ever
> > challenged by a Regulatory Authority.
> > >
> > > Authorisation can be applied for by the user of the chemical or by the
> > EU-based supplier on behalf of the people they supply to. Therefore, if
> you
> > decide that the criteria for exemption are not met (i.e. that
> authorisation
> > is required), the next step you take will be determined by where your
> > supplier is based. If your supplier is based in the EU, we would
> recommend
> > that you contact your supplier to find out whether the supplier has
> applied
> > for authorisation, and whether you can benefit from this.
> > >
> > > If you source the substance directly from outside the EU, the duty to
> > apply for authorisation would fall to you. However, we appreciate that
> this
> > may be an unrealistic task. Please don’t hesitate to get back in touch
> with
> > the helpdesk should you wish to discuss this further.
> > >
> > > I hope this helps.
> > >
> > > Kind regards,
> > >
> > > Laura
> > > ------------------------
> > > Laura McCabe
> > > REACH & CLP Helpdesk
> > > Chemicals Regulation Division
> > >
> > > HSE, Redgrave Court, Bootle, Merseyside L20 7HS
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPad
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Alt-photo-process-list | altphotolist.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Alt-photo-process-list | altphotolist.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > Alt-photo-process-list | altphotolist.org
> >
>
>
>
> --
> John Brewer
> www.thevictorianphotographer.com
> www.johnbrewerphotography.com
> workshops:equipment sales:chemistry sales
> _______________________________________________
> Alt-photo-process-list | altphotolist.org
> _______________________________________________
> Alt-photo-process-list | altphotolist.org
>



-- 
John Brewer
www.thevictorianphotographer.com
www.johnbrewerphotography.com
workshops:equipment sales:chemistry sales


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