[Alt-photo] cyanotype paper

victor.malakhov at gmx.de victor.malakhov at gmx.de
Sun Dec 3 22:33:47 UTC 2017


sorry for perhaps inappropriate joining the conversation, I am new in this mailing list :) 

I've most probably read the same U.S. patents as you Marek and I forgot the link to the source as well. But luckily I've saved some pdf-copies on my PC. Here is a short-living upload to the Dropbox, so you can download them for your use:

I hope it is what you are looking for!

> Feels like I remember reading in some older patents about the use
> of fumed silica for the production of blueprint paper. This was
> aimed at increased print density. I won’t be able to look for the reference for a while

> But maybe my memory is playing tricks on me
> Marek

> Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 3, 2017, at 10:55 AM, Christina Z. Anderson via
> Alt-photo-process-list
> <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org<mailto:alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>> wrote:

> Thanks, Bob! I will go check my Kosar out now.
> Chris

> On Dec 3, 2017, at 10:10 AM, bobkiss
> caribsurf.com<http://caribsurf.com>
> <bobkiss at caribsurf.com<mailto:bobkiss at caribsurf.com>> wrote:


>     Recently, I dug back into my 1970s edition of Kosar and it was
> even mentioned there that one could actually mix some fumed silica
> into the coating solution and that it would increase Dmax.  If you
> are interested I could try to find the page # and edition # of my
> oooooooooooooooooooooold text book.

>                            CHEERS!
>                                          BOB

> From:
> "alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org<mailto:alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>"
> <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org<mailto:alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>>
> To: "Richard Sullivan"
> <sullivan8486 at gmail.com<mailto:sullivan8486 at gmail.com>>
> Cc:
> "alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org<mailto:alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>"
> <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org<mailto:alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>>
> Sent: Sunday, December 3, 2017 11:02:37 AM
> Subject: Re: [Alt-photo] cyanotype paper

> Dick,

> I have seen that silver nitrate formula often: Wall, Brown’s Ferric
> and Heliographic Processes, Hoppé, Photographic News... One calls it
> “Imitation Platinotype.” I have lots of silver nitrate lying around
> from salted paper and planned on trying it one of these days.

> Silica seems to be a holy grail with pt/pd. Am I right in that
> assessment? I have never used it. I read on your website that you
> suggest it deals with the buffering in the paper, or does it attract
> humidity so the paper remains moist or what?  What exactly is its role in pt/pd?

> I tried to find the pH of fumed silica and it seems it might be on
> the acid side. If so, that would be good for cyanotype and its problem with alkaline papers.

> Just thinking aloud here, trying to see if its pH or its humidity
> effects are what are improving the cyanotype process for you.

> Ware says he has not found humidity to be a factor in cyanotype as
> in other processes (p. 181 Cyanomicon II) and so far that has been
> my case, too, which, of course, makes it quite user-friendly for a Montana climate.

> But the ubiquitous calcium carbonate buffering is such a PIMA with
> cyanotype and if silica did, in fact, improve that, it’d be a great ingredient to have on hand.

> Chris

> On Dec 2, 2017, at 10:01 AM, Richard Sullivan
> <sullivan8486 at gmail.com<mailto:sullivan8486 at gmail.com>> wrote:

> A quick add-on

> When coating with fumed silica the silica seems to take over. When
> I was first testing it with PD/PT, I asked Dana what was in his
> knowledge the worst paper to use for PD/PT. He said without a doubt
> Lannaquerell. Gordon mark and I grabbed a few sheets and the results
> were stunning, nice prints on the coated side and crap on the uncoated silica side.

> --Dick

> On Sat, Dec 2, 2017 at 9:56 AM, Richard Sullivan
> <sullivan8486 at gmail.com<mailto:sullivan8486 at gmail.com>
> <mailto:sullivan8486 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> From an unknown source and from my archives. I found thus about 40 years ago. Never tried it.

">> To Color Blue Prints Black.
> — To get the desired color, bathe the
> print in distilled water and immerse in a 2 per cent, nitrate of silver
> solution. After bleaching of the picture, wash again in distilled water,
> dry and expose to ammonia vapors. A short exposure and subsequent
> development with oxalate of iron will produce a good black silver
> picture.

> Paper be damned. A few years ago my assistant Madelyn Willis (pic
> below) and I were exploring fumed silica and cyans.

> Below on the left (her right) is a fumed silica coated print, the left one is non-silica coated.

> We used the same mix for both and did our best to coate, expose, etc the same for both.

> The results were even more stunning when we used something we called
> SuperBlue from a 1950's formula for commercial BP paper.

> As for details check Advanced patent search and search for "Cyanotype blueprint Jahoda."

> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fadvanced_patent_search&data=02%7C01%7Cmarekmatusz%40hotmail.com%7Cb27f8d72657347f47de308d53a7f66cc%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636479241206163817&sdata=lxpTiLeLJsw0hwtBOJurEQYNz4msk6RJLQFN8pTGzZo%3D&reserved=0
> <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fadvanced_patent_search&data=02%7C01%7Cmarekmatusz%40hotmail.com%7Cb27f8d72657347f47de308d53a7f66cc%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636479241206163817&sdata=lxpTiLeLJsw0hwtBOJurEQYNz4msk6RJLQFN8pTGzZo%3D&reserved=0>

> Of further interest Patent No.:

> 2,237,084

> Also note that guanidine ferric oxalate was the iron salt of choice
> in the latter period of the blueprint.

> How to make:

> 2265934 A

> (Originally derived from guano off islands near Chile. Known around here as batsh*t ferric oxalate.)

> I have some guanidine carbonate here.

> --Dick

> <image.jpeg>

> On Sat, Dec 2, 2017 at 9:12 AM, Christina Z. Anderson via
> Alt-photo-process-list
> <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org<mailto:alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
> <mailto:alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>> wrote:
> Dear Alberto,

> You started me on this trend a long time ago when you posted the
> topic of bleeding and information you had found in patents on the
> list. Since then I have changed the typical 20%/8% you see quoted in
> books, including my own, to a minimum of 20%/10% to make sure the
> ratio is no greater than 2:1 (I know you had discussed molar amounts
> and yours was 18/8). The sky didn’t fall in.

> Then through my research into formulas I found that they were so
> completely all over the board that I started testing a 4:1 FAC:PF to
> 1:4 FAC:PF and was surprised how little difference it makes. You
> still get a print. However, the speed is slower. But the color is
> more turquoise and less navy (goes more green than red) and it is much smoother.

> When I began testing papers for my upcoming cyanotype intensive
> class spring semester, since I started with the 10/10 I just kept
> on, to keep apples to apples. When I narrow down to a few select
> papers I’ll go back to the 20/10 to see if the speed increase is
> worth it over the smoothness and color I prefer.

> When I was using the 20/8 I was also often using 2A:1B or 40:8! No
> wonder I had bleeding and it was you, Alberto, who saved the day!

> Chris

> PS Another paper I have had great luck with is Clearprint 1020H.
> 100% cotton. It amounts to about 20¢ for a 9x12! This and Canson
> U-Sketch/Crob Art have to be about the cheapest (14¢ a 9x12) but the
> Clearprint specifies cotton and archival and the Canson does not say
> what the paper is made of. I do tape the paper down when coating. I
> much prefer it to the lighter weight 100H Clearprint but the lighter
> weight is conveniently often sold in small pads.

> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FCLEARPRINT-VELLUM-1000HP-18X24-PAD%2Fdp%2FB000KNL9PM%2Fref%3Dsr_1_4%3Fie%3DUTF8%26qid%3D1512230214%26sr%3D8-4%26keywords%3Dclearprint%2B1020&data=02%7C01%7Cmarekmatusz%40hotmail.com%7Cb27f8d72657347f47de308d53a7f66cc%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636479241206163817&sdata=gmtlYNUDWDjgjaI1zOkwPwIQNR5I1K7EjMjXkYMYEo8%3D&reserved=0
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> On Dec 2, 2017, at 12:33 AM, Alberto Novo
> <alt.list at albertonovo.it<mailto:alt.list at albertonovo.it>
> <mailto:alt.list at albertonovo.it>> wrote:

> With vinegar and citric it leans turquoise. With sulfamic it leans
> purple. Caveat: I am using classic cyanotype at only a 10% ferric
> ammonium citrate/10% potassium ferricyanide so YRMV, but UVBL
> exposures are 12-19 minutes with acid development.

> Hi Chris,
> I see that you have switched to a greater amount of ferricyanide, like we discussed time ago.
> Hence, there are some benefits, isnt'it?

> Alberto

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Victor Malakhov

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