[Alt-photo] cyanotype paper

Luciano Teghillo luciano at lucianoteghillo.com
Mon Dec 4 18:01:17 UTC 2017


Hi Victor,

Thanks for posting!
Luciano 



-----Original Message-----
From: Alt-photo-process-list
[mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of
Marek Matusz via Alt-photo-process-list
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2017 4:11 PM
To: Christina Z. Anderson; alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
Subject: Re: [Alt-photo] cyanotype paper

I second Chris here. Thanks for posting
Marek

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 4, 2017, at 5:55 AM, Christina Z. Anderson via Alt-photo-process-list
<alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org<mailto:alt-photo-process-list
@lists.altphotolist.org>> wrote:

Victor,

There is never any inappropriate joining of a conversation on this list. In
fact the opposite: we wish that those who never post and never share but
just lurk would join the conversation!

Thanks so much for the patents in the Dropbox link. It is so much easier to
share them like this than to search!

Chris

On Dec 3, 2017, at 3:33 PM, Victor Malakhov via Alt-photo-process-list
<alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org<mailto:alt-photo-process-list
@lists.altphotolist.org>> wrote:

Hey,

sorry for perhaps inappropriate joining the conversation, I am new in this
mailing list :)

I've most probably read the same U.S. patents as you Marek and I forgot the
link to the source as well. But luckily I've saved some pdf-copies on my PC.
Here is a short-living upload to the Dropbox, so you can download them for
your use:
https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dropbo
x.com%2Fsh%2Fy0cfk37tiedizn3%2FAADpBJxkjVaKtk73osa8QGfPa%3Fdl%3D0&data=02%7C
01%7Cmarekmatusz%40hotmail.com%7Ce6e6d7ee94cd4686ed6c08d53b1ea40e%7C84df9e7f
e9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636479925150663954&sdata=D7QV1srZmXnGumfn
KOktncE5PXkOzKwSPNRoCCAzFAo%3D&reserved=0

I hope it is what you are looking for!
Best,
Victor

Feels like I remember reading in some older patents about the use of fumed
silica for the production of blueprint paper. This was aimed at increased
print density. I won’t be able to look for the reference for a while

But maybe my memory is playing tricks on me Marek

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 3, 2017, at 10:55 AM, Christina Z. Anderson via
Alt-photo-process-list
<alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org<mailto:alt-photo-process-list
@lists.altphotolist.org><mailto:alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.or
g>> wrote:

Thanks, Bob! I will go check my Kosar out now.
Chris

On Dec 3, 2017, at 10:10 AM, bobkiss
caribsurf.com<http://caribsurf.com><https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlo
ok.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcaribsurf.com&data=02%7C01%7Cmarekmatusz%40hotmail.
com%7Ce6e6d7ee94cd4686ed6c08d53b1ea40e%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C
1%7C0%7C636479925150663954&sdata=OHMatfctgwg4pLnWRVStlmYqq20IiSnDyAsTUxr1kHU
%3D&reserved=0>
<bobkiss at caribsurf.com<mailto:bobkiss at caribsurf.com><mailto:bobkiss at caribsur
f.com>> wrote:

DEAR CHRIS,

   Recently, I dug back into my 1970s edition of Kosar and it was even
mentioned there that one could actually mix some fumed silica into the
coating solution and that it would increase Dmax.  If you are interested I
could try to find the page # and edition # of my oooooooooooooooooooooold
text book.

                          CHEERS!
                                        BOB

From:
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@lists.altphotolist.org><mailto:alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.or
g>>
To: "Richard Sullivan"
<sullivan8486 at gmail.com<mailto:sullivan8486 at gmail.com><mailto:sullivan8486 at g
mail.com>>
Cc:
"alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org<mailto:alt-photo-process-list
@lists.altphotolist.org><mailto:alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.or
g>"
<alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org<mailto:alt-photo-process-list
@lists.altphotolist.org><mailto:alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.or
g>>
Sent: Sunday, December 3, 2017 11:02:37 AM
Subject: Re: [Alt-photo] cyanotype paper

Dick,

I have seen that silver nitrate formula often: Wall, Brown’s Ferric and
Heliographic Processes, Hoppé, Photographic News... One calls it “Imitation
Platinotype.” I have lots of silver nitrate lying around from salted paper
and planned on trying it one of these days.

Silica seems to be a holy grail with pt/pd. Am I right in that assessment? I
have never used it. I read on your website that you suggest it deals with
the buffering in the paper, or does it attract humidity so the paper remains
moist or what?  What exactly is its role in pt/pd?

I tried to find the pH of fumed silica and it seems it might be on the acid
side. If so, that would be good for cyanotype and its problem with alkaline
papers.

Just thinking aloud here, trying to see if its pH or its humidity effects
are what are improving the cyanotype process for you.

Ware says he has not found humidity to be a factor in cyanotype as in other
processes (p. 181 Cyanomicon II) and so far that has been my case, too,
which, of course, makes it quite user-friendly for a Montana climate.

But the ubiquitous calcium carbonate buffering is such a PIMA with cyanotype
and if silica did, in fact, improve that, it’d be a great ingredient to have
on hand.

Chris

On Dec 2, 2017, at 10:01 AM, Richard Sullivan
<sullivan8486 at gmail.com<mailto:sullivan8486 at gmail.com><mailto:sullivan8486 at g
mail.com>> wrote:

A quick add-on

When coating with fumed silica the silica seems to take over. When I was
first testing it with PD/PT, I asked Dana what was in his knowledge the
worst paper to use for PD/PT. He said without a doubt Lannaquerell. Gordon
mark and I grabbed a few sheets and the results were stunning, nice prints
on the coated side and crap on the uncoated silica side.

--Dick

On Sat, Dec 2, 2017 at 9:56 AM, Richard Sullivan
<sullivan8486 at gmail.com<mailto:sullivan8486 at gmail.com><mailto:sullivan8486 at g
mail.com>
<mailto:sullivan8486 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>From an unknown source and from my archives. I found thus about 40 years
ago. Never tried it.

">> To Color Blue Prints Black.
— To get the desired color, bathe the
print in distilled water and immerse in a 2 per cent, nitrate of silver
solution. After bleaching of the picture, wash again in distilled water, dry
and expose to ammonia vapors. A short exposure and subsequent development
with oxalate of iron will produce a good black silver picture.

Paper be damned. A few years ago my assistant Madelyn Willis (pic
below) and I were exploring fumed silica and cyans.

Below on the left (her right) is a fumed silica coated print, the left one
is non-silica coated.

We used the same mix for both and did our best to coate, expose, etc the
same for both.

The results were even more stunning when we used something we called
SuperBlue from a 1950's formula for commercial BP paper.

As for details check Advanced patent search and search for "Cyanotype
blueprint Jahoda."

https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google
.com%2Fadvanced_patent_search&data=02%7C01%7Cmarekmatusz%40hotmail.com%7Cb27
f8d72657347f47de308d53a7f66cc%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6
36479241206163817&sdata=lxpTiLeLJsw0hwtBOJurEQYNz4msk6RJLQFN8pTGzZo%3D&reser
ved=0
<https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.googl
e.com%2Fadvanced_patent_search&data=02%7C01%7Cmarekmatusz%40hotmail.com%7Cb2
7f8d72657347f47de308d53a7f66cc%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C
636479241206163817&sdata=lxpTiLeLJsw0hwtBOJurEQYNz4msk6RJLQFN8pTGzZo%3D&rese
rved=0>

Of further interest Patent No.:

2,237,084

Also note that guanidine ferric oxalate was the iron salt of choice in the
latter period of the blueprint.

How to make:

2265934 A

(Originally derived from guano off islands near Chile. Known around here as
batsh*t ferric oxalate.)

I have some guanidine carbonate here.

--Dick



<image.jpeg>


On Sat, Dec 2, 2017 at 9:12 AM, Christina Z. Anderson via
Alt-photo-process-list
<alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org<mailto:alt-photo-process-list
@lists.altphotolist.org><mailto:alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.or
g>
<mailto:alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>> wrote:
Dear Alberto,

You started me on this trend a long time ago when you posted the topic of
bleeding and information you had found in patents on the list. Since then I
have changed the typical 20%/8% you see quoted in books, including my own,
to a minimum of 20%/10% to make sure the ratio is no greater than 2:1 (I
know you had discussed molar amounts and yours was 18/8). The sky didn’t
fall in.

Then through my research into formulas I found that they were so completely
all over the board that I started testing a 4:1 FAC:PF to
1:4 FAC:PF and was surprised how little difference it makes. You still get a
print. However, the speed is slower. But the color is more turquoise and
less navy (goes more green than red) and it is much smoother.

When I began testing papers for my upcoming cyanotype intensive class spring
semester, since I started with the 10/10 I just kept on, to keep apples to
apples. When I narrow down to a few select papers I’ll go back to the 20/10
to see if the speed increase is worth it over the smoothness and color I
prefer.

When I was using the 20/8 I was also often using 2A:1B or 40:8! No wonder I
had bleeding and it was you, Alberto, who saved the day!

Chris

PS Another paper I have had great luck with is Clearprint 1020H.
100% cotton. It amounts to about 20¢ for a 9x12! This and Canson
U-Sketch/Crob Art have to be about the cheapest (14¢ a 9x12) but the
Clearprint specifies cotton and archival and the Canson does not say what
the paper is made of. I do tape the paper down when coating. I much prefer
it to the lighter weight 100H Clearprint but the lighter weight is
conveniently often sold in small pads.

https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon
.com%2FCLEARPRINT-VELLUM-1000HP-18X24-PAD%2Fdp%2FB000KNL9PM%2Fref%3Dsr_1_4%3
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<https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazo
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On Dec 2, 2017, at 12:33 AM, Alberto Novo
<alt.list at albertonovo.it<mailto:alt.list at albertonovo.it><mailto:alt.list at alb
ertonovo.it>
<mailto:alt.list at albertonovo.it>> wrote:


With vinegar and citric it leans turquoise. With sulfamic it leans purple.
Caveat: I am using classic cyanotype at only a 10% ferric ammonium
citrate/10% potassium ferricyanide so YRMV, but UVBL exposures are 12-19
minutes with acid development.

Hi Chris,
I see that you have switched to a greater amount of ferricyanide, like we
discussed time ago.
Hence, there are some benefits, isnt'it?

Alberto

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_______________________________

Victor Malakhov

VIC TOR PHOTOGRAPHY
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