[Alt-photo] cyanotype paper

Gordon Holtslander gjh at shaw.ca
Mon Dec 4 22:04:26 UTC 2017


HI: 

It is possible to bleach leaves, if you want to capture the veining structure within the leaf its possible to bleach them to remove most of the pigmentation. Could also bleach them differently if that is the effect desired. I can look up details if you are interested. 

Gord 

Gordon J. Holtslander 
gjh at shaw.ca 
Learn about HSP http://sp-foundation.org 


From: "alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org" <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org> 
To: "alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org" <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org> 
Sent: Monday, December 4, 2017 2:42:54 PM 
Subject: Re: [Alt-photo] cyanotype paper 

Hello fellow forum members, I live in Colombia and I've followed this forum for a long time now. I bought Cristina's first book on gum bichromate when it came out, I have other books but hers is the one I consult most often. In her second book Cristina included some gum prints by Servane Aubineau who has taken workshops with me. 

I am now working with a student producing cyanotypes of yarumo leaves on a 150x150 cm canvas, exposing the canvas with the leaves on top, I'm not yet sure if we'll expose it in daylight or with the UV lamp we use for screen printing. Any suggestions? 

My second question is on how to coat a surface area of this size - do I use Cristina's 1x1 mix and what canvas types are recommended? 

Thank you for your advice. 

Fernando Cruz 

Bogotá www.fotografiacolombiana.com 


> El 4/12/2017, a las 1:01 p.m., Luciano Teghillo via Alt-photo-process-list <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org> escribió: 
> 
> Hi Victor, 
> 
> Thanks for posting! 
> Luciano 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Alt-photo-process-list 
> [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of 
> Marek Matusz via Alt-photo-process-list 
> Sent: Monday, December 04, 2017 4:11 PM 
> To: Christina Z. Anderson; alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org 
> Subject: Re: [Alt-photo] cyanotype paper 
> 
> I second Chris here. Thanks for posting 
> Marek 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 
> 
> On Dec 4, 2017, at 5:55 AM, Christina Z. Anderson via Alt-photo-process-list 
> <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org<mailto:alt-photo-process-list 
> @lists.altphotolist.org>> wrote: 
> 
> Victor, 
> 
> There is never any inappropriate joining of a conversation on this list. In 
> fact the opposite: we wish that those who never post and never share but 
> just lurk would join the conversation! 
> 
> Thanks so much for the patents in the Dropbox link. It is so much easier to 
> share them like this than to search! 
> 
> Chris 
> 
> On Dec 3, 2017, at 3:33 PM, Victor Malakhov via Alt-photo-process-list 
> <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org<mailto:alt-photo-process-list 
> @lists.altphotolist.org>> wrote: 
> 
> Hey, 
> 
> sorry for perhaps inappropriate joining the conversation, I am new in this 
> mailing list :) 
> 
> I've most probably read the same U.S. patents as you Marek and I forgot the 
> link to the source as well. But luckily I've saved some pdf-copies on my PC. 
> Here is a short-living upload to the Dropbox, so you can download them for 
> your use: 
> https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dropbo 
> x.com%2Fsh%2Fy0cfk37tiedizn3%2FAADpBJxkjVaKtk73osa8QGfPa%3Fdl%3D0&data=02%7C 
> 01%7Cmarekmatusz%40hotmail.com%7Ce6e6d7ee94cd4686ed6c08d53b1ea40e%7C84df9e7f 
> e9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636479925150663954&sdata=D7QV1srZmXnGumfn 
> KOktncE5PXkOzKwSPNRoCCAzFAo%3D&reserved=0 
> 
> I hope it is what you are looking for! 
> Best, 
> Victor 
> 
> Feels like I remember reading in some older patents about the use of fumed 
> silica for the production of blueprint paper. This was aimed at increased 
> print density. I won’t be able to look for the reference for a while 
> 
> But maybe my memory is playing tricks on me Marek 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 
> 
> On Dec 3, 2017, at 10:55 AM, Christina Z. Anderson via 
> Alt-photo-process-list 
> <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org<mailto:alt-photo-process-list 
> @lists.altphotolist.org><mailto:alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.or 
> g>> wrote: 
> 
> Thanks, Bob! I will go check my Kosar out now. 
> Chris 
> 
> On Dec 3, 2017, at 10:10 AM, bobkiss 
> caribsurf.com<http://caribsurf.com><https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlo 
> ok.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcaribsurf.com&data=02%7C01%7Cmarekmatusz%40hotmail. 
> com%7Ce6e6d7ee94cd4686ed6c08d53b1ea40e%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C 
> 1%7C0%7C636479925150663954&sdata=OHMatfctgwg4pLnWRVStlmYqq20IiSnDyAsTUxr1kHU 
> %3D&reserved=0> 
> <bobkiss at caribsurf.com<mailto:bobkiss at caribsurf.com><mailto:bobkiss at caribsur 
> f.com>> wrote: 
> 
> DEAR CHRIS, 
> 
> Recently, I dug back into my 1970s edition of Kosar and it was even 
> mentioned there that one could actually mix some fumed silica into the 
> coating solution and that it would increase Dmax. If you are interested I 
> could try to find the page # and edition # of my oooooooooooooooooooooold 
> text book. 
> 
> CHEERS! 
> BOB 
> 
> From: 
> "alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org<mailto:alt-photo-process-list 
> @lists.altphotolist.org><mailto:alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.or 
> g>" 
> <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org<mailto:alt-photo-process-list 
> @lists.altphotolist.org><mailto:alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.or 
> g>> 
> To: "Richard Sullivan" 
> <sullivan8486 at gmail.com<mailto:sullivan8486 at gmail.com><mailto:sullivan8486 at g 
> mail.com>> 
> Cc: 
> "alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org<mailto:alt-photo-process-list 
> @lists.altphotolist.org><mailto:alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.or 
> g>" 
> <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org<mailto:alt-photo-process-list 
> @lists.altphotolist.org><mailto:alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.or 
> g>> 
> Sent: Sunday, December 3, 2017 11:02:37 AM 
> Subject: Re: [Alt-photo] cyanotype paper 
> 
> Dick, 
> 
> I have seen that silver nitrate formula often: Wall, Brown’s Ferric and 
> Heliographic Processes, Hoppé, Photographic News... One calls it “Imitation 
> Platinotype.” I have lots of silver nitrate lying around from salted paper 
> and planned on trying it one of these days. 
> 
> Silica seems to be a holy grail with pt/pd. Am I right in that assessment? I 
> have never used it. I read on your website that you suggest it deals with 
> the buffering in the paper, or does it attract humidity so the paper remains 
> moist or what? What exactly is its role in pt/pd? 
> 
> I tried to find the pH of fumed silica and it seems it might be on the acid 
> side. If so, that would be good for cyanotype and its problem with alkaline 
> papers. 
> 
> Just thinking aloud here, trying to see if its pH or its humidity effects 
> are what are improving the cyanotype process for you. 
> 
> Ware says he has not found humidity to be a factor in cyanotype as in other 
> processes (p. 181 Cyanomicon II) and so far that has been my case, too, 
> which, of course, makes it quite user-friendly for a Montana climate. 
> 
> But the ubiquitous calcium carbonate buffering is such a PIMA with cyanotype 
> and if silica did, in fact, improve that, it’d be a great ingredient to have 
> on hand. 
> 
> Chris 
> 
> On Dec 2, 2017, at 10:01 AM, Richard Sullivan 
> <sullivan8486 at gmail.com<mailto:sullivan8486 at gmail.com><mailto:sullivan8486 at g 
> mail.com>> wrote: 
> 
> A quick add-on 
> 
> When coating with fumed silica the silica seems to take over. When I was 
> first testing it with PD/PT, I asked Dana what was in his knowledge the 
> worst paper to use for PD/PT. He said without a doubt Lannaquerell. Gordon 
> mark and I grabbed a few sheets and the results were stunning, nice prints 
> on the coated side and crap on the uncoated silica side. 
> 
> --Dick 
> 
> On Sat, Dec 2, 2017 at 9:56 AM, Richard Sullivan 
> <sullivan8486 at gmail.com<mailto:sullivan8486 at gmail.com><mailto:sullivan8486 at g 
> mail.com> 
> <mailto:sullivan8486 at gmail.com>> wrote: 
> From an unknown source and from my archives. I found thus about 40 years 
> ago. Never tried it. 
> 
> ">> To Color Blue Prints Black. 
> — To get the desired color, bathe the 
> print in distilled water and immerse in a 2 per cent, nitrate of silver 
> solution. After bleaching of the picture, wash again in distilled water, dry 
> and expose to ammonia vapors. A short exposure and subsequent development 
> with oxalate of iron will produce a good black silver picture. 
> 
> Paper be damned. A few years ago my assistant Madelyn Willis (pic 
> below) and I were exploring fumed silica and cyans. 
> 
> Below on the left (her right) is a fumed silica coated print, the left one 
> is non-silica coated. 
> 
> We used the same mix for both and did our best to coate, expose, etc the 
> same for both. 
> 
> The results were even more stunning when we used something we called 
> SuperBlue from a 1950's formula for commercial BP paper. 
> 
> As for details check Advanced patent search and search for "Cyanotype 
> blueprint Jahoda." 
> 
> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google 
> .com%2Fadvanced_patent_search&data=02%7C01%7Cmarekmatusz%40hotmail.com%7Cb27 
> f8d72657347f47de308d53a7f66cc%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6 
> 36479241206163817&sdata=lxpTiLeLJsw0hwtBOJurEQYNz4msk6RJLQFN8pTGzZo%3D&reser 
> ved=0 
> <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.googl 
> e.com%2Fadvanced_patent_search&data=02%7C01%7Cmarekmatusz%40hotmail.com%7Cb2 
> 7f8d72657347f47de308d53a7f66cc%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C 
> 636479241206163817&sdata=lxpTiLeLJsw0hwtBOJurEQYNz4msk6RJLQFN8pTGzZo%3D&rese 
> rved=0> 
> 
> Of further interest Patent No.: 
> 
> 2,237,084 
> 
> Also note that guanidine ferric oxalate was the iron salt of choice in the 
> latter period of the blueprint. 
> 
> How to make: 
> 
> 2265934 A 
> 
> (Originally derived from guano off islands near Chile. Known around here as 
> batsh*t ferric oxalate.) 
> 
> I have some guanidine carbonate here. 
> 
> --Dick 
> 
> 
> 
> <image.jpeg> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Dec 2, 2017 at 9:12 AM, Christina Z. Anderson via 
> Alt-photo-process-list 
> <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org<mailto:alt-photo-process-list 
> @lists.altphotolist.org><mailto:alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.or 
> g> 
> <mailto:alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>> wrote: 
> Dear Alberto, 
> 
> You started me on this trend a long time ago when you posted the topic of 
> bleeding and information you had found in patents on the list. Since then I 
> have changed the typical 20%/8% you see quoted in books, including my own, 
> to a minimum of 20%/10% to make sure the ratio is no greater than 2:1 (I 
> know you had discussed molar amounts and yours was 18/8). The sky didn’t 
> fall in. 
> 
> Then through my research into formulas I found that they were so completely 
> all over the board that I started testing a 4:1 FAC:PF to 
> 1:4 FAC:PF and was surprised how little difference it makes. You still get a 
> print. However, the speed is slower. But the color is more turquoise and 
> less navy (goes more green than red) and it is much smoother. 
> 
> When I began testing papers for my upcoming cyanotype intensive class spring 
> semester, since I started with the 10/10 I just kept on, to keep apples to 
> apples. When I narrow down to a few select papers I’ll go back to the 20/10 
> to see if the speed increase is worth it over the smoothness and color I 
> prefer. 
> 
> When I was using the 20/8 I was also often using 2A:1B or 40:8! No wonder I 
> had bleeding and it was you, Alberto, who saved the day! 
> 
> Chris 
> 
> PS Another paper I have had great luck with is Clearprint 1020H. 
> 100% cotton. It amounts to about 20¢ for a 9x12! This and Canson 
> U-Sketch/Crob Art have to be about the cheapest (14¢ a 9x12) but the 
> Clearprint specifies cotton and archival and the Canson does not say what 
> the paper is made of. I do tape the paper down when coating. I much prefer 
> it to the lighter weight 100H Clearprint but the lighter weight is 
> conveniently often sold in small pads. 
> 
> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon 
> .com%2FCLEARPRINT-VELLUM-1000HP-18X24-PAD%2Fdp%2FB000KNL9PM%2Fref%3Dsr_1_4%3 
> Fie%3DUTF8%26qid%3D1512230214%26sr%3D8-4%26keywords%3Dclearprint%2B1020&data 
> =02%7C01%7Cmarekmatusz%40hotmail.com%7Cb27f8d72657347f47de308d53a7f66cc%7C84 
> df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636479241206163817&sdata=gmtlYNUDWD 
> jgjaI1zOkwPwIQNR5I1K7EjMjXkYMYEo8%3D&reserved=0 
> <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazo 
> n.com%2FCLEARPRINT-VELLUM-1000HP-18X24-PAD%2Fdp%2FB000KNL9PM%2Fref%3Dsr_1_4% 
> 3Fie%3DUTF8%26qid%3D1512230214%26sr%3D8-4%26keywords%3Dclearprint%2B1020&dat 
> a=02%7C01%7Cmarekmatusz%40hotmail.com%7Cb27f8d72657347f47de308d53a7f66cc%7C8 
> 4df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636479241206163817&sdata=gmtlYNUDW 
> DjgjaI1zOkwPwIQNR5I1K7EjMjXkYMYEo8%3D&reserved=0> 
> <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazo 
> n.com%2FCLEARPRINT-VELLUM-1000HP-18X24-PAD%2Fdp%2FB000KNL9PM%2Fref%3Dsr_1_4% 
> 3Fie%3DUTF8%26qid%3D1512230214%26sr%3D8-4%26keywords%3Dclearprint%2B1020&dat 
> a=02%7C01%7Cmarekmatusz%40hotmail.com%7Cb27f8d72657347f47de308d53a7f66cc%7C8 
> 4df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636479241206163817&sdata=gmtlYNUDW 
> DjgjaI1zOkwPwIQNR5I1K7EjMjXkYMYEo8%3D&reserved=0 
> <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazo 
> n.com%2FCLEARPRINT-VELLUM-1000HP-18X24-PAD%2Fdp%2FB000KNL9PM%2Fref%3Dsr_1_4% 
> 3Fie%3DUTF8%26qid%3D1512230214%26sr%3D8-4%26keywords%3Dclearprint%2B1020&dat 
> a=02%7C01%7Cmarekmatusz%40hotmail.com%7Cb27f8d72657347f47de308d53a7f66cc%7C8 
> 4df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636479241206163817&sdata=gmtlYNUDW 
> DjgjaI1zOkwPwIQNR5I1K7EjMjXkYMYEo8%3D&reserved=0>> 
> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.michael 
> s.com%2Fcanson-universal-sketch-pad%2FM10121123.html&data=02%7C01%7Cmarekmat 
> usz%40hotmail.com%7Cb27f8d72657347f47de308d53a7f66cc%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435a 
> aaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636479241206163817&sdata=XE58R00DkTQB%2BDvflPVPK7FsbDq 
> qbVqfMkvF3Jh5dY8%3D&reserved=0 
> <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.michae 
> ls.com%2Fcanson-universal-sketch-pad%2FM10121123.html&data=02%7C01%7Cmarekma 
> tusz%40hotmail.com%7Cb27f8d72657347f47de308d53a7f66cc%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435 
> aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636479241206163817&sdata=XE58R00DkTQB%2BDvflPVPK7FsbD 
> qqbVqfMkvF3Jh5dY8%3D&reserved=0> 
> <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.michae 
> ls.com%2Fcanson-universal-sketch-pad%2FM10121123.html&data=02%7C01%7Cmarekma 
> tusz%40hotmail.com%7Cb27f8d72657347f47de308d53a7f66cc%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435 
> aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636479241206163817&sdata=XE58R00DkTQB%2BDvflPVPK7FsbD 
> qqbVqfMkvF3Jh5dY8%3D&reserved=0 
> <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.michae 
> ls.com%2Fcanson-universal-sketch-pad%2FM10121123.html&data=02%7C01%7Cmarekma 
> tusz%40hotmail.com%7Cb27f8d72657347f47de308d53a7f66cc%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435 
> aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636479241206163817&sdata=XE58R00DkTQB%2BDvflPVPK7FsbD 
> qqbVqfMkvF3Jh5dY8%3D&reserved=0>> 
> 
> 
> On Dec 2, 2017, at 12:33 AM, Alberto Novo 
> <alt.list at albertonovo.it<mailto:alt.list at albertonovo.it><mailto:alt.list at alb 
> ertonovo.it> 
> <mailto:alt.list at albertonovo.it>> wrote: 
> 
> 
> With vinegar and citric it leans turquoise. With sulfamic it leans purple. 
> Caveat: I am using classic cyanotype at only a 10% ferric ammonium 
> citrate/10% potassium ferricyanide so YRMV, but UVBL exposures are 12-19 
> minutes with acid development. 
> 
> Hi Chris, 
> I see that you have switched to a greater amount of ferricyanide, like we 
> discussed time ago. 
> Hence, there are some benefits, isnt'it? 
> 
> Alberto 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
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> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> -- 
> 
> _______________________________ 
> 
> Victor Malakhov 
> 
> VIC TOR PHOTOGRAPHY 
> https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.vic-tor-photography. 
> de&data=02%7C01%7Cmarekmatusz%40hotmail.com%7Ce6e6d7ee94cd4686ed6c08d53b1ea4 
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> info at vic-tor-photoraphy.de<mailto:info at vic-tor-photoraphy.de> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
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> 
> _______________________________________________ 
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