[Alt-photo] Chromoskedasic Painting again....

Laura Valentino lv at lauraval.com
Sun Oct 1 15:57:05 UTC 2017

Thanks Christina. I will definitely try the glossy paper next and do the 
test you suggested. I did heat the water to mix my solutions, but I 
suspect they cooled down quit at bit before I actually got up and 
running. So that's another thing I'll try to fix.

I also need to create some images with more white in them!


On 01/10/2017 15:04, Christina Z. Anderson via Alt-photo-process-list wrote:
> Laura,
> Glossy.
> Fiber or RC (I much prefer fiber).
> Was your solution warm (e.g. mix the activator and stabilizer in 500 ml hot water, 250 ml activator, 125 stabilizer, 125 ml Ecopro)?
> I have the students develop the print in print developer (we use Dektol) first for up to 60 seconds just to get the blacks to appear. Then the print is drained and goes face up into the tray of chromo.
> Silver plating will only appear in the whites. You can test your solution this way. Take an unexposed strip of glossy Ilford and put it in the tray face up. You should see it turn gray fairly quickly. Leave it still and watch the gray creeping and then it will start fluorescing if you look at it obliquely. Then wash, fix, hypo clear, dry, but never touch the surface with fingers or tongs as it’ll scratch. It should look essentially like a mirror. William Jolly called it silver mirror printing, in fact, in an article in PhotoTechnique magazine decades ago.
> I have not heard of any reformulation of Ilford paper in the last year since the last time I taught the lab. Heaven help me if that is the case and I have 16 disappointed students on Thursday.
> I do know that in order to manufacture the solutions, Eric at Freestyle said the amounts are so minute that they make about 400 units (which if memory serves, the units were gallons) at one time to make a correct batch. I have not tried the Moersch so maybe that is my next thing to test to see if it performs exactly the same. When I was able to get the chems to silver out and work back in perhaps was it 2009, I then worked closely with Alan Bean and Freestyle to test different chems to see which ones worked well. There was one set that they were going to carry that did not work as well for me. The other set did and it is now the Arista Chromo label.
> It would be fantastic if Moersch worked; am very interested in that.
> But all in all, the colors tend mostly to a deep burnt orange, and from memory Lam adds paint to many of his chromos, btw.
> Also, one sort of iteration of the chromo is the Halochrome toner from Rockland Colloid. That silvers out the blacks, not the whites, on an already completed print. It is expensive, and unfortunately cannot be shipped to Europe either, but someone with a BW chemistry background could look at the MSDS of this and the Arista chromo and come up with why the silver occurs I would think, and reverse engineer a foolproof solution.
> http://www.freestylephoto.biz/18383-Rockland-Colloid-Halochrome-(Makes-64-oz.)
> Chris
>> On Oct 1, 2017, at 7:50 AM, Laura Valentino via Alt-photo-process-list <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org> wrote:
>> I also did my first Chromos recently, following the instructions in Christina's Experimental Photography Workbook
>> - except -
>> I could not get the activator chemical from Freestyle (they only ship it ground because of the hazmat label) so I used these chemicals from Moersch Photochemie: http://www.moersch-photochemie.de/content/shop/chromo/157/chromoskedasic_sabattier_technique/lang:en
>> They should be the same chemicals, but who knows if the formula is exactly the same. I did use the Eco Pro developer though.
>> I did not have luck with the tray method (just got dark brown over all) and was more successful with the brush method. Still I did not get a lot of color, mostly gold-brown tones. Also I did not get the silver plating look...is this supposed to appear in the white areas or black?
>> I was using Ilford warmtone paper, but the matt finish...would glossy perhaps work better? I now have some Arista glossy so I will try again. These are FB btw, should I rather be using RC?
>> Laura
>> On 29/09/2017 14:27, Christina Z. Anderson via Alt-photo-process-list wrote:
>>> Dear Udo,
>>> I have done a lot of “chromo” and teach it every year in my experimental photography class so I know every mistake in the book. In fact, our gang chromo lab is this coming week. Unfortunately chromos are impossible to scan/photograph as they fluoresce differently or look flat gray. They have to be seen in person.
>>> I am not a chemist nor scientist so if you are, you can figure out why the practice I describe below happens, but I just know it does.
>>> If you want the paper to silver out, the two papers that silver out the best are Arista and Ilford Warmtone. Other papers just aren’t as predictable.
>>> I call them a “poor man’s daguerreotype” because they are truly a silver mirror print. That was Jolly’s term for them.
>>> If the solution gets grungy, you will get dull amorphous silver coating the surface of the print and it looks really ugly. So I do switch out the solution frequently. If that happens right away, you can try to avoid it by developing the print face down. During the gang chromo lab I do have to switch out the chemistry probably after 10 prints per liter tray, and you can imagine with 16 students all doing chromo how this goes. It looks like in the URL you shared that you had that sludge.
>>> I also always use a WARM solution (mixing the chems in water at least 80º) thanks to Alberto Novo who told me to make plate glass mirrors, the solution has to be in the 80s or more to have the silver plate out. Works like a charm and I literally have everyone in the class successful with an instant silvered print if the paper is Ilford or Arista (glossy! Matte works…ok enough but not my fave) and the temperature is as it should be.
>>> The secret to also making this work instantly or regularly is the use of Eco-Pro developer, not Dektol. I have NO IDEA why this is the case, but when I inadvertently switched to this developer, always silver. Google an MSDS sheet and compare the two developers and perhaps you can tell me why. There’s an MSDS on Freestyle’s website and you can make your own I would suppose.
>>> http://www.freestylephoto.biz/1231036-LegacyPro-EcoPro-BW-Paper-Developer-1-Quart-(Makes-2.5-3.75-Gallons) <http://www.freestylephoto.biz/1231036-LegacyPro-EcoPro-BW-Paper-Developer-1-Quart-(Makes-2.5-3.75-Gallons)>
>>> http://www.freestylephoto.biz/static/pdf/msds/legacypro/450200_LEGACYPRO_ECO_PRO_B&W_PAPER_DEVELOPER_9.2.15.pdf <http://www.freestylephoto.biz/static/pdf/msds/legacypro/450200_LEGACYPRO_ECO_PRO_B&W_PAPER_DEVELOPER_9.2.15.pdf>
>>> For the colors, which will only occur in the whites of the image as the silver does also, There are two things you can do to get them: be out in room light, and the colors primarily come from contamination between the three solutions. The solutions also have to be in a particular proportion to work, 2 activator to 1 stabilizer and then the developer is variable, but instant color happens when the developer goes into the mix. Too much stabilizer and it inactivates.
>>> I mix little cups of the three solutions and the students have most fun brushing on the chems outside in room light. We get burnt oranges, some greens and occasionally blue, yellow if stabilizer is used. Certainly no bright red and true green though.
>>> I’ve visited/had lunch with Dominic in Hong Kong when I was on sabbatical, and I saw his prints in person. In fact, he was working on a huge one, say 2 feet by 8, like a scroll, when I was there. Quite an energetic soul.
>>> One last thing is that the old Kodak Activator and Stabilizer produced a warmer/more gold toned metal than the Arista Activator/Stabilizer. I don’t know what the difference, but I have I think one last set of the Kodak in my office at school. It’s quite lovely stuff.
>>> I apologize that if you have the Experimental Photography Workbook this is a rehash of what is in it already so I will have shared nothing new, but maybe said in a different way will help solve your problem.
>>> Chris
>>>> On Sep 28, 2017, at 10:03 PM, BJ68 via Alt-photo-process-list <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org> wrote:
>>>> Dear List,
>>>> here are my first tries with Chromoskedasic Chemistry:
>>>> http://illumina-chemie.de/chemigrams-and-co-t4590.html#68935
>>>> I try to mix the Chemistry myself from chemicals, because you will not run in trouble with obsolete/abandoned products.
>>>> Any suggestions to change things?
>>>> Sadly I got not the nice colors....like Dominic Man-Kit Lam.
>>>> Bj68
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