[Alt-photo] Alt-photo-process-list Digest, Vol 176, Issue 7

forums at walkerblackwell.com forums at walkerblackwell.com
Tue Oct 10 16:53:26 UTC 2017

PiezoDN is a bit more turn-key for the 1430 (you don’t have to start from scratch) and is both the carbon-based inks and associated curves. There will always be some flatbed scanning or spectrophotometer work to calibrate for your own darkroom conditions though.


And we will be releasing a (free) beta driver for the 1430 PiezoDN customers with new dither technology and increased resolution (up to 5760x2880) to reduce micro-lining that sometimes is present on the 1430 with QuadtoneRIP “ordered” dither on some models of the 1430 as Epson's production consistency can be slightly wonky from printer to printer.

The new dither technology will also be available for all epson printers for Piezography dig neg and is probably the most important thing we’ve seen in our R&D lab over the past 2 years of dig neg production and experimentation . . .

Best regards

> On Oct 10, 2017, at 11:45 AM, Seth Martin via Alt-photo-process-list <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org> wrote:
> Hi Jalo,
> The printer I started with *(since I was experimenting and wasn't sure if
> my roguing might damage the printer)* was a cheap little Epson 1400...$150
> at Best Buy. These printers have 1.5 picoliter nozzles and work well with
> the diluted inks. You can buy empty carts from Inksupply.com
> <https://www.inksupply.com/>. I've tried cheaper Ebay suppliers with bad
> results. The black ink I use is Hp C9449A 70 Photo Black Original Ink
> Cartridge....you can buy in from Amazon. I dilute the HP ink with a clear
> base that I mix, but you can also buy clear base from STS inks in Florida
> in a liter bottle for about $90. I've used both with excellent results. If
> you are interested in mixing your own I can provide the formula. Credit for
> this mix goes to Paul Rourk, very helpful guy. You will see links to his
> web site on the Inksupply web site. I did adjust his formula and made a
> spreadsheet that's you basically plug in the desired quantity of Clear base
> and it provides ingredient quantities by weight. As far as Piezography goes
> goes I suppose it works fine, lots of people use it, but check out the
> price.
>  As I mentioned in my earlier post, I make custom curves and use
> QuadtoneRIP, the learning curve (no pun intended) is a little steep, but
> worth it. So here's what you will need :
> 1. A scale accurate to two decimal places (an electronic scale for weighing
> tea is fine) I purchased an Ohaus with more capacity, I use it for my
> darkroom work as well.
> Note: I weigh my Ink and clear base for greater accuracy and repeatability
> 2. Epson Printer like the 1400  (QuadtoneRIP only works with epson
> printers). I'd start out with the small printers that use 10-12ml carts Not
> the Epson 4800 with long feed tubes. you'll need to be able to load and
> flush the ink from the head as you go through the testing phase.
> 3. Set of Empty carts
> 4. Black ink and ingredients for clear base.
> 5. A few 4 oz Nalgene bottles to store your ink dilutions, one large one (1
> liter) for the clear base mix
> 5. Installed copy of QTR (the Windows version is easiest to use)  t
> 6. A spectrometer ( I purchased a Datacolor SpyderPRINT
> <https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/838847-REG/Datacolor_S4SR100_Spyder4_Print_SR.html>
> )
> 7. Microsoft Excel 2010 (Windows) Excel is the tool you will need to
> develop and test your curves (checking for Linearization) I developed a
> spreadsheet for constructing QuadtoneRIP curves, but now a guy named Richard
> Boutwell <https://www.bwmastery.com/> has produced an entire set of tools
> for this purpose. The basic spreadsheet for making a correction curve is
> free. With his software you can make curves for Digital Negatives or for
> Positives. Check out his site, he's done a great job making QTR curve a
> simpler process..
> So this may be more than you bargained on, but if you want prints or
> digital negatives that are perfectly smooth tonally you will at a minimum
> need to use QuadtoneRIP. The canned profiles or curves that are provided by
> Ink set manufactures are really just a starting point. Every printer is a
> little different, you can make a profile for your Epson printer that works
> perfectly and give it to a friend with the identical model and they may get
> banding or tonal irregularities. So sorry for too much info, let me know if
> I can be of further help or if I missed something.
> -Seth
> On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 9:27 AM, Jalo Porkkala <jporkkala at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Seth,
>> I would be interested in abandoning color inks and trying diluted blacks
>> for more even transitions, and maybe could get rid of disturbing dot
>> patterns in the negative. On which printer are you doing this, and where do
>> you buy the black ink? I have read something about Piezography, but you are
>> using something different?
>> Thanks!
>> -Jalo
>> 2017-10-09 17:42 GMT+03:00 Seth Martin via Alt-photo-process-list <
>> alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>:
>>> John,
>>> Parts of what you've outlined are essentially the same as the method I use
>>> except that I'm not using any color inks. I've tested the color method
>>> when
>>> I started making digital negatives and decided to abandon color in favor
>>> of
>>> 100% Black and 5 shades of diluted black. That said, my interests at least
>>> in the beginning were to make negatives for printing silver gelatin
>>> prints.
>>> Recently I've been making negatives for Gum printing using the same black
>>> and gray inks and I'm getting nice results. I haven't been gum printing
>>> that long, but I suspect the no color method will produce what I'm looking
>>> for. I realize the typical method has been centered around determining a
>>> color that blocks the most light, like a reddish green, but this method
>>> didn't produce the smooth gradations I wanted. The limited number of
>>> useful
>>> and active ink channels in the color method is why really smooth
>>> gradations
>>> are difficult to achieve (maybe just my opinion)
>>>  One of the advantages in not using color (at least with silver gelatin
>>> printing, the new alternative photography) is that you can fine tune
>>> contrast on the final print using a variable contrast filters if needed.
>>> If
>>> your negative is already a reddish color the VC paper contrast range is
>>> being effected from the start. My initial tests are to determine Dmax are
>>> made with a "Normal" grade filter in the mix. As it is I rarely have cause
>>> to alter my filtration by much if any.
>>>   Like most of you, I'm using QuadtoneRIP to control ink flow and to
>>> print
>>> my negatives with no curves applied in Photoshop. There is no reason that
>>> you couldn't make QTR curves that would make use a standard color ink set
>>> where all the channels were in play, but it's much easier to buy empty
>>> carts and mix my own shades of gray. Has anyone else experimented with
>>> mixing their own inks for black only printing....I'd be interested in
>>> hearing what your experiences have been.
>>> Sorry for the extra long post,
>>> Seth
>>> On Sun, Oct 8, 2017 at 11:44 PM, John Isner <john.isner at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I am following the procedure in the book "Easy Digital Negatives" by
>>> Peter
>>>> Mrhar.  I have already used the procedure successfully to calibrate two
>>>> processes and I am working on my third process which is a variation of
>>>> cyanotype.
>>>> Mrhar's profiling procedure has four steps.  You carry these out before
>>>> you start printing actual images: (1) determine the exposure time for
>>>> "maximum black" (2) determine the optimal UV blocking color (3) develop
>>> a
>>>> correction curve (4) develop a curve for soft proofing.  Each step
>>> involves
>>>> making a print from a negative.  In the case of (1), the negative is
>>> just a
>>>> blank sheet of transparency film.  In the case of (2), the negative is
>>>> actually a positive grid of 256 colors.  In the case of (3) and (4) the
>>>> negative is a step wedge printed in color.  Once you start the profiling
>>>> process, you can't change anything.  For example, if you determine the
>>>> exposure time using transparency film A and later switch to transparency
>>>> film B, the exposure time may be too long or too short.  Since I'm doing
>>>> this to some extent as an academic / scientific exercise, I decided to
>>> do
>>>> it by the book.
>>>> As far as high density ink is concerned, the 256 color step wedge is
>>>> printed with high density.  The other negatives are printed using low,
>>>> normal, or high density, depending on the process (cyanotype is low, Van
>>>> Dyke is high).
>>>> On Sun, Oct 8, 2017 at 5:35 AM, Seth Martin via Alt-photo-process-list <
>>>> alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org> wrote:
>>>>> I may have an answer, but first...What process are you using Pictorico
>>>>> Ultra Premium for?
>>>>> Seth Martin
>>>>> On Sun, Oct 8, 2017 at 8:00 AM, <
>>>>> alt-photo-process-list-request at lists.altphotolist.org> wrote:
>>>>>> Send Alt-photo-process-list mailing list submissions to
>>>>>>        alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
>>>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>>>>        https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/alt-
>>>>>> photo-process-list
>>>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>>>>        alt-photo-process-list-request at lists.altphotolist.org
>>>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>>>>>        alt-photo-process-list-owner at lists.altphotolist.org
>>>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>>>>> than "Re: Contents of Alt-photo-process-list digest..."
>>>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>>>>   1. Re:  need an alternative to Pictorico Ultra Premium
>>>>>>      (`Richard Knoppow)
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ----------
>>>>>> Message: 1
>>>>>> Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2017 16:09:57 -0700
>>>>>> From: `Richard Knoppow <dickburk at ix.netcom.com>
>>>>>> To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Alt-photo] need an alternative to Pictorico Ultra
>>>>>>        Premium
>>>>>> Message-ID: <8c931141-01cb-b51c-075d-43b2c0bcb717 at ix.netcom.com>
>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>>>>>> ?? Your message is on the list so you did the right thing.
>>>>>> On 10/7/2017 3:52 PM, John Isner via Alt-photo-process-list wrote:
>>>>>>> I realize I am replying to your personal email address.  How
>>> should I
>>>>>> reply
>>>>>>> in such a way that my reply appears on the listserv?
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>> FYI I am not the tennis player!
>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 2:38 PM, Keith Schreiber <
>>>>> keith at jkschreiber.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Richard Knoppow
>>>>>> dickburk at ix.netcom.com
>>>>>> WB6KBL
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Alt-photo-process-list | altphotolist.org
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>> End of Alt-photo-process-list Digest, Vol 176, Issue 7
>>>>>> ******************************************************
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