[Alt-photo] Another good paper for cyanotype

Peter Friedrichsen pfriedrichsen at sympatico.ca
Tue Feb 6 02:22:17 UTC 2018


Anne,

Since the firing would destroy the cyanotype pigment structure leaving only iron oxide, perhaps it could be done chemically with an alkali treatment and rinse pre-firing. At least there would be no concern for any toxic pyrolysis byproducts.

Peter Friedrichsen

> On Feb 5, 2018, at 8:39 PM, Anne Chansonette via Alt-photo-process-list <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org> wrote:
> 
> Since cyanotypes are in the discussion currently, can I ask if anyone has
> experience with printing cyanotype on fired ceramics? I've been trying to
> print on porcelain and so far the results are pretty lackluster. Also, does
> anyone have a source for more info on that OR on the dangers/ possibilities
> of printing on bisqued porcelain and then firing to vitrification? I
> believe that firing cyanotype chemistry to high temperatures would result
> in toxic fumes, but I have seen photos of fired cyanotypes on ceramic
> (which turn dark red/ brown not blue), so it has been done, though perhaps
> not safely? Any leads on further info or sources would be appreciated!
> 
> Best,
> Anne Eder
> www.anneeder.com
> 
> On Mon, Feb 5, 2018 at 9:50 AM, Christina Z. Anderson via
> Alt-photo-process-list <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
> wrote:
> 
>> Keith,
>> 
>> Yeah, the wait for Herschel is long and the price with shipping is a bit
>> beyond student budgets. Europe is lucky in the availability of some great
>> papers and some great paper stores.
>> 
>> Thanks for the tips on the two Japanese papers.
>> 
>> If you cannot get the traditional cyanotype to work this may work for you
>> as it did for me in this dry climate: dilute your A (if it is 20%) to a 10
>> % FAC and increase your PF to 10%. It absorbs into the paper better and
>> prints a smoother, less gritty tone with less wash-off. It also is,
>> surprisingly, faster on most papers I have tested (of course, all problems
>> that the Ware formula solves).
>> 
>> When compiling a chart of 100+ formulas throughout history, I noticed the
>> FAC:PF was all over the place albeit not often more PF than FAC. I thought
>> I would start, then, with equal proportions and move up in FAC from there.
>> I ended up staying with 10/10 because it looked great.
>> 
>> When I started the cyanotype class in school I reverted to my usual 20/10
>> mix I always use for the class, and noted an immediate problem with grain
>> and grit and wash off again. I went back to the 10/10 and their prints
>> looked great (and were faster by1/2-1 stop, not slower).
>> 
>> Chris
>> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 4, 2018, at 9:53 PM, Keith Schreiber <keith at jkschreiber.com>
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Chris,
>>> 
>>> I had to take a break from paper and process testing, which you know is
>> just about my favorite thing too, to get some actual printing done and
>> prepare for a couple of workshops, but I intend to be back at it by early
>> summer.
>>> 
>>> I've just got a couple comments for you:
>>> 
>>> Herschel - I bought a bunch about a year ago and it took a month to get
>> here. It was shipped quickly enough and was at US customs in less than a
>> week, but then it sat there for about 3 weeks. Contraband paper dontcha
>> know! I haven't done anything with it yet other than a couple quick tests.
>> I'm gonna have to tweak my standard Pd process for it, but I'm hoping it
>> works well with the Malde-Ware POP process which I am finally learning.
>>> 
>>> I can't seem to get anything to work with classic cyanotype here, but
>> two Japanese papers that do work well with "New Cyanotype" are Tosa
>> Hakkinshi and Sekishi Torinoko Gampi. The latter is exceedingly smooth but
>> a bit more contrasty than other papers I've tested with that process. Both
>> are available from Hiromi.
>>> 
>>> I look forward to trying the Sumi-e.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> Keith
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 3, 2018, at 1:10 PM, Christina Z. Anderson via
>> Alt-photo-process-list <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Dear All,
>>>> 
>>>> Might have missed some of the emails because I’m out of town. Thank you
>> to those who are interested! I’ve been on this paper testing gamut for so
>> many months now, it seems, that I feel like a lone voice crying in the
>> wilderness.
>>>> 
>>>> The fact that the paper is unbuffered really made my ears perk up in
>> regards to cyanotype. I am unaware of which washis are unbuffered or if
>> they are as a general rule. So much of the time those details are
>> unspecified.
>>>> 
>>>> I have these papers specified as unbuffered and made for alt processes
>> (Sumi-e is made for sumi ink processes).
>>>> 1.         Arches Platine, two weights
>>>> 
>>>> 2.         Awagami Platinum Gampi, two weights
>>>> 
>>>> 3.         Awagami Platinum Mitsumata
>>>> 
>>>> 4.         Bergger Cot 320, two weights
>>>> 
>>>> 5.         Hahnemühle Platinum Rag
>>>> 
>>>> 6.        Herschel Platinotype
>>>> 
>>>> 7.         Legion Revere Platinum
>>>> 
>>>> Kees, there are papers that you get in the Netherlands that are just
>> impossible to get here. I can get Schut, for instance, but darned if I can
>> get Simile Japon or some other names (Tershellong or something?) And
>> Herschel, heck, I ordered some several weeks ago, costing about $17USD a
>> sheet, and it has yet to arrive. So unfortunately some good papers can be
>> Euro- or Amero-centric.
>>>> 
>>>> I can’t wait to hear how Sumi-e is with platinum and salt.
>>>> 
>>>> I do not have the extensive experience as some of you do, of printing
>> on washi, but these I have tried (bold are faves; crossed out are
>> eliminated either because they are unsuitable or they fell down the list in
>> suitability):
>>>> Legion Kitakata,
>>>> Legion Hosho,
>>>> Legion Masa,
>>>> Legion Okawara,
>>>> Legion Goyu,
>>>> Legion Thai Kozo
>>>> Awagami Platinum Gampi
>>>> Awagami Platinum Mitsumata
>>>> 
>>>> (Keith, aren’t you proud of me, using exact names?)
>>>> 
>>>> I also have a bunch of washi I bought in Japan years ago but
>> unfortunately I do not have the English names of any so they are not
>> included in my latest tests. And some of those papers, one $60 a sheet,
>> were not good for cyanotype, either pilling, printing too dull blue-gray,
>> or disintegrating in the water like toilet paper (as Legion Hosho did for
>> me).
>>>> 
>>>> So why I wax poetic about this paper is that by comparison it prints
>> very smooth tones, a turquoise blue more than navy blue or gray navy as
>> some do, and without pilling or tearing when hanging, etc. And the way it
>> is packaged in pads is overkill-protective. But when you compare the price
>> of Sumi-e to Awagami ($12 a sheet), you can see why as a professor I was
>> very excited for my students to be able to find a reasonably priced washi
>> to have their first washi experience with. The cyanotype class will have
>> prints due on Sumi-e on Monday and we’ll develop curves for it after that.
>> Its absorbency might be a deal-breaker for platinum printers without
>> resorting to some sort of dilution of chemistry but we’ll soon find out
>> from you platinum aficionados. I only print cyanoplati so would not use
>> this paper for a double-print.
>>>> 
>>>> Chris
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 3, 2018, at 3:06 AM, Kees Brandenburg <workshops at polychrome.nl>
>> wrote:
>>>>> Found it in the Netherlands too: 50x65cm, 80gr. 20 sheets (not in pad)
>> €21,80
>>>>> Kees
>>>> 
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>>> 
>> 
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