[Alt-photo] Troubles with Calotypes, James' "Contemporary" Method

J. Jason Lazarus lazarus at obscura-works.com
Wed Jan 10 23:08:07 UTC 2018


Thanks to all of you who have chimed in - I greatly appreciate the help.

Ned - 

James mixes in both Talbot's original method with this Contemporary approach often, making it a bit hard to follow along in the text without reading and re-reading the entire process. On page 73, he's referring to Talbot's original method that sensitized with gallo-nitrate and not aceto-nitrate. Skip a couple paragraphs and he lists the "contemporary" version of sensitizing with aceto-nitrate. 

I've never acidified my paper before. Anyone have a suggested guide to how to do this? I imagine this is a newbie question and I apologize for that!

Brittonie -

I am using two separate brushes for Silver Nitrate and Aceto-nitrate, but in my rush to work on this process, I grabbed a pre-used VDB brush for the development process. You're certainly right that this likely would introduce flaws. I'll use a new brush for that step as well! Thank you. As well, I've been running through gloves quite a bit, so I'm pretty sure I've kept this contamination down.

I'll check out Canson Marker. Haven't heard of it.

Marek -

Looks like I might want to try different paper. I'll look for some Kozo that can withstand the 2+ hour rinses. Thanks!

Jason

> On Jan 10, 2018, at 1:40 AM, alt-photo-process-list-request at lists.altphotolist.org wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re:  Troubles with Calotypes,	James' "Contemporary" Method
>      (Ned Lewis)
>   2. Re:  Troubles with Calotypes,	James' "Contemporary" Method
>      (Brittonie)
>   3. Re:  Troubles with Calotypes,	James' "Contemporary" Method
>      (Brittonie)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2018 21:00:26 -0800
> From: Ned Lewis <nl at nedlewis.org>
> To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
> Subject: Re: [Alt-photo] Troubles with Calotypes,	James'
> 	"Contemporary" Method
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAKgWZ78tErp2JohoC+T1srPLTeLQV641DuWoa5+jXJ1Y-aZNFg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> 
> I've not tired Rives BFK but the Canson Universal Sketch is buffered and
> does not work with the calotype processes I've tried.  I have not tried a
> pre-silvered process like the one you are using, I think if anything they
> might be more susceptible to paper problems.
> 
> 1:1 ANS and saturated gallic sounds like way too much ANS to me... some
> calotypes can be developed without ANS at all, if like yours, they are not
> washed after sensitizing.  When we do need ANS, the amount varies from just
> a few drops to just a few ml.   I don't have a copy of the James book, but
> glancing at it in Google Books I noticed something odd... I saw the part
> that said to mix ANS to gallic 1:1, but a page or two before, on page 73
> writing about "part A-2", he says, "The silver and acid restrainer should
> be added to the developer little by little as needed as you develop the
> image".  That sounds more like what I'm aware of.
> 
> You could try acidifying the paper prior to preparing it for a calotype.
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 6:26 PM, Marek Matusz via Alt-photo-process-list <
> alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org> wrote:
> 
>> Well, I have not done a single calotype but I know that salted paper
>> printing is very sensitive and incompatible with buffered paper. Is the
>> advice for calotypes to use unbuffered papers ? I am sure calotypists would
>> chime in. Most of the Japanese kozo papers are thin and unbuffered
>> Marek
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jan 9, 2018, at 7:15 PM, Keith Schreiber via Alt-photo-process-list <
>> alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Jason,
>>> 
>>> I have no personal experience with Calotype, but I do have something
>> that may be of use to you. It is a 12 page booklet on Talbot's Calotype
>> process from the Fox Talbot Museum. I'll scan it to a pdf file in the next
>> day or 2 and send it to you.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> Keith
>>> 
>>> Keith Schreiber
>>> jkschreiber.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 9, 2018, at 5:13 PM, J. Jason Lazarus via Alt-photo-process-list
>> <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> All -
>>>> 
>>>> I recently decided to start challenging myself by learning some new
>> processes. I've been lurking in the shadows of this group for some time and
>> have quite a bit of experience printing Cyanotypes, Albumen, Van Dyke,
>> etc... so my new challenge is the Calotype process.
>>>> 
>>>> I'm using the 3rd edition of James' book as a resource for printing and
>> I'm using the "contemporary" version of the process outlined in his book,
>> but I'm not getting results. I've had suggestions elsewhere that have urged
>> me to attempt the Pelegry Calotype method rather than the basic one
>> outlined in James' book, but I'd rather not give up so easily. I'm
>> convinced I'm overlooking something, but after several attempts, I'm
>> seeking out advice from the hive mind here.
>>>> 
>>>> Consistently, no image forms on my paper when developed. The paper
>> develops and slowly turns dark brown, but no actual image develops. I'd
>> immediately blame overexposure, but I've developed non-sensitized iodized
>> calotype paper and had similar things happen in the developer, albeit with
>> lighter browns, but still, it acts as if this non-sensitized iodized paper
>> is exposed. Worried that it's overexposure from the safe lights, I've
>> reduced my safelight usage to absolute minimum and reduced the number used
>> to a single one, approximately 10 feet away from the paper. My only
>> thoughts are that I'm either doing something completely wrong or maybe I'm
>> misreading something.
>>>> 
>>>> So.. although provided in much finer detail in James' book, this is
>> what I'm doing:
>>>> 
>>>> Created a 8% Silver Nitrate solution. Applied it to the paper (I've
>> attempted both Rives BFK and Canson Sketch) with a new brush.
>>>> 
>>>> Created a 5.5% solution of Potassium Iodide to submerge the paper in.
>> Submerged paper while still showing a sheen from the Silver Nitrate for 2
>> minutes.
>>>> 
>>>> Washed the iodized paper for 2 hours, switching out tap water every
>> 30-45 minutes and shuffling the paper, too.  Line dried the paper
>> afterwards.
>>>> 
>>>> Coated the paper with an Aceto-Nitrate solution (11.4g Silver Nitrate
>> in 100ml distilled w/ 19.4ml of glacial acetic added) - 4 drops to every
>> 4ml of distilled.
>>>> 
>>>> Exposed (while damp but not wet) for both 2 & 4 minutes w/ a 4x5 camera
>> at an aperture of 9.  An exposure of f/5.6 at 1 minute was suggested in the
>> book in well-lit outdoors. It is -15F outside, so I'm shooting through my
>> bay window.
>>>> 
>>>> Developed in a 1:1 solution of Aceto-Nitrate and saturated Gallic Acid
>> (approximately 0.5% - its cold in my darkroom).
>>>> 
>>>> The paper slowly turns brown and then, within 4-5 minutes, is a rich
>> dark brown.  Because it shows literally no image information, I haven't
>> continued with the washing or fixing.
>>>> 
>>>> So... where am I messing up? I'd greatly appreciate any help I could
>> get with this process. Has anyone had success with James' contemporary
>> version? Its been suggested that I should switch to Alan Green's Primitive
>> Photography book. Thoughts?
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks to all.
>>>> 
>>>> J. Jason Lazarus
>>>> Term Instructor, Photography
>>>> University of Alaska Fairbanks
>>>> https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
>> www.obscura-works.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cd6b855d7d9684ad879ab08d557c7b43b%
>> 7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636511437583394905&sdata=
>> 0Z2XV2%2Fh7l5fWaXOuqZ249OOYOYcUavjdjxoBsC2Gew%3D&reserved=0
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Alt-photo-process-list | altphotolist.org
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Alt-photo-process-list | altphotolist.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> Alt-photo-process-list | altphotolist.org
>> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 10:38:47 +0000
> From: Brittonie <brittonie at gmail.com>
> To: Ned Lewis <nl at nedlewis.org>,
> 	alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
> Subject: Re: [Alt-photo] Troubles with Calotypes,	James'
> 	"Contemporary" Method
> Message-ID: <5E2C7B53-5698-47F6-BEEB-4A651655B5B2 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=us-ascii
> 
> Hi there,
> 
> I know canson marker works very well.
> 
> Another thing (I think we were talking on Facebook)
> 
> When you say new brush  do you mean one new brush for each step?
> 
> I've found that the only way to get decent results in my workflow is new gloves and a new cotton swab for each step and very carefully keeping my coating spaces clean and seperate - using the same brush particularly with the Gallic acid or acetonitrate tends to darken and ruin any hope of image... I also found if I kept the same gloves on all through the process fingerprints and marks end up everywhere.
> 
> I'm a fairly free going printer in that I tend to be a little loose with measurements and coatings generally but calotype is sooooooo sensitive I really really have to reign it in- which I like. It makes me have a better working practice in other things.
> 
> The cotton ball "buckle brush" is good because of the quick disposable nature and lack of contamination. I generally don't like to make a lot of easy in printing but definitely think this is another good place to start.
> 
> Also found I didn't need as much of the developer or even half the time suggested in the James book.
> 
>> On 10 Jan 2018, at 05:00, Ned Lewis via Alt-photo-process-list <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org> wrote:
>> 
>> I've not tired Rives BFK but the Canson Universal Sketch is buffered and
>> does not work with the calotype processes I've tried.  I have not tried a
>> pre-silvered process like the one you are using, I think if anything they
>> might be more susceptible to paper problems.
>> 
>> 1:1 ANS and saturated gallic sounds like way too much ANS to me... some
>> calotypes can be developed without ANS at all, if like yours, they are not
>> washed after sensitizing.  When we do need ANS, the amount varies from just
>> a few drops to just a few ml.   I don't have a copy of the James book, but
>> glancing at it in Google Books I noticed something odd... I saw the part
>> that said to mix ANS to gallic 1:1, but a page or two before, on page 73
>> writing about "part A-2", he says, "The silver and acid restrainer should
>> be added to the developer little by little as needed as you develop the
>> image".  That sounds more like what I'm aware of.
>> 
>> You could try acidifying the paper prior to preparing it for a calotype.
>> 
>> Good luck!
>> 
>> On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 6:26 PM, Marek Matusz via Alt-photo-process-list <
>> alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> Well, I have not done a single calotype but I know that salted paper
>>> printing is very sensitive and incompatible with buffered paper. Is the
>>> advice for calotypes to use unbuffered papers ? I am sure calotypists would
>>> chime in. Most of the Japanese kozo papers are thin and unbuffered
>>> Marek
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 9, 2018, at 7:15 PM, Keith Schreiber via Alt-photo-process-list <
>>> alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Jason,
>>>> 
>>>> I have no personal experience with Calotype, but I do have something
>>> that may be of use to you. It is a 12 page booklet on Talbot's Calotype
>>> process from the Fox Talbot Museum. I'll scan it to a pdf file in the next
>>> day or 2 and send it to you.
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Keith
>>>> 
>>>> Keith Schreiber
>>>> jkschreiber.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 9, 2018, at 5:13 PM, J. Jason Lazarus via Alt-photo-process-list
>>> <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> All -
>>>>> 
>>>>> I recently decided to start challenging myself by learning some new
>>> processes. I've been lurking in the shadows of this group for some time and
>>> have quite a bit of experience printing Cyanotypes, Albumen, Van Dyke,
>>> etc... so my new challenge is the Calotype process.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm using the 3rd edition of James' book as a resource for printing and
>>> I'm using the "contemporary" version of the process outlined in his book,
>>> but I'm not getting results. I've had suggestions elsewhere that have urged
>>> me to attempt the Pelegry Calotype method rather than the basic one
>>> outlined in James' book, but I'd rather not give up so easily. I'm
>>> convinced I'm overlooking something, but after several attempts, I'm
>>> seeking out advice from the hive mind here.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Consistently, no image forms on my paper when developed. The paper
>>> develops and slowly turns dark brown, but no actual image develops. I'd
>>> immediately blame overexposure, but I've developed non-sensitized iodized
>>> calotype paper and had similar things happen in the developer, albeit with
>>> lighter browns, but still, it acts as if this non-sensitized iodized paper
>>> is exposed. Worried that it's overexposure from the safe lights, I've
>>> reduced my safelight usage to absolute minimum and reduced the number used
>>> to a single one, approximately 10 feet away from the paper. My only
>>> thoughts are that I'm either doing something completely wrong or maybe I'm
>>> misreading something.
>>>>> 
>>>>> So.. although provided in much finer detail in James' book, this is
>>> what I'm doing:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Created a 8% Silver Nitrate solution. Applied it to the paper (I've
>>> attempted both Rives BFK and Canson Sketch) with a new brush.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Created a 5.5% solution of Potassium Iodide to submerge the paper in.
>>> Submerged paper while still showing a sheen from the Silver Nitrate for 2
>>> minutes.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Washed the iodized paper for 2 hours, switching out tap water every
>>> 30-45 minutes and shuffling the paper, too.  Line dried the paper
>>> afterwards.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Coated the paper with an Aceto-Nitrate solution (11.4g Silver Nitrate
>>> in 100ml distilled w/ 19.4ml of glacial acetic added) - 4 drops to every
>>> 4ml of distilled.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Exposed (while damp but not wet) for both 2 & 4 minutes w/ a 4x5 camera
>>> at an aperture of 9.  An exposure of f/5.6 at 1 minute was suggested in the
>>> book in well-lit outdoors. It is -15F outside, so I'm shooting through my
>>> bay window.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Developed in a 1:1 solution of Aceto-Nitrate and saturated Gallic Acid
>>> (approximately 0.5% - its cold in my darkroom).
>>>>> 
>>>>> The paper slowly turns brown and then, within 4-5 minutes, is a rich
>>> dark brown.  Because it shows literally no image information, I haven't
>>> continued with the washing or fixing.
>>>>> 
>>>>> So... where am I messing up? I'd greatly appreciate any help I could
>>> get with this process. Has anyone had success with James' contemporary
>>> version? Its been suggested that I should switch to Alan Green's Primitive
>>> Photography book. Thoughts?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks to all.
>>>>> 
>>>>> J. Jason Lazarus
>>>>> Term Instructor, Photography
>>>>> University of Alaska Fairbanks
>>>>> https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
>>> www.obscura-works.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cd6b855d7d9684ad879ab08d557c7b43b%
>>> 7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636511437583394905&sdata=
>>> 0Z2XV2%2Fh7l5fWaXOuqZ249OOYOYcUavjdjxoBsC2Gew%3D&reserved=0
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Alt-photo-process-list | altphotolist.org
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Alt-photo-process-list | altphotolist.org
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Alt-photo-process-list | altphotolist.org
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Alt-photo-process-list | altphotolist.org
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 10:40:48 +0000
> From: Brittonie <brittonie at gmail.com>
> To: Ned Lewis <nl at nedlewis.org>,
> 	alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
> Subject: Re: [Alt-photo] Troubles with Calotypes,	James'
> 	"Contemporary" Method
> Message-ID: <E74BF098-2925-4226-B572-CC8FF02DB580 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=us-ascii
> 
> Keith- can you share that off with the list? I'd like to check it out :)
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> B
> 
>> On 10 Jan 2018, at 05:00, Ned Lewis via Alt-photo-process-list <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org> wrote:
>> 
>> I've not tired Rives BFK but the Canson Universal Sketch is buffered and
>> does not work with the calotype processes I've tried.  I have not tried a
>> pre-silvered process like the one you are using, I think if anything they
>> might be more susceptible to paper problems.
>> 
>> 1:1 ANS and saturated gallic sounds like way too much ANS to me... some
>> calotypes can be developed without ANS at all, if like yours, they are not
>> washed after sensitizing.  When we do need ANS, the amount varies from just
>> a few drops to just a few ml.   I don't have a copy of the James book, but
>> glancing at it in Google Books I noticed something odd... I saw the part
>> that said to mix ANS to gallic 1:1, but a page or two before, on page 73
>> writing about "part A-2", he says, "The silver and acid restrainer should
>> be added to the developer little by little as needed as you develop the
>> image".  That sounds more like what I'm aware of.
>> 
>> You could try acidifying the paper prior to preparing it for a calotype.
>> 
>> Good luck!
>> 
>> On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 6:26 PM, Marek Matusz via Alt-photo-process-list <
>> alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> Well, I have not done a single calotype but I know that salted paper
>>> printing is very sensitive and incompatible with buffered paper. Is the
>>> advice for calotypes to use unbuffered papers ? I am sure calotypists would
>>> chime in. Most of the Japanese kozo papers are thin and unbuffered
>>> Marek
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 9, 2018, at 7:15 PM, Keith Schreiber via Alt-photo-process-list <
>>> alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Jason,
>>>> 
>>>> I have no personal experience with Calotype, but I do have something
>>> that may be of use to you. It is a 12 page booklet on Talbot's Calotype
>>> process from the Fox Talbot Museum. I'll scan it to a pdf file in the next
>>> day or 2 and send it to you.
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Keith
>>>> 
>>>> Keith Schreiber
>>>> jkschreiber.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 9, 2018, at 5:13 PM, J. Jason Lazarus via Alt-photo-process-list
>>> <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> All -
>>>>> 
>>>>> I recently decided to start challenging myself by learning some new
>>> processes. I've been lurking in the shadows of this group for some time and
>>> have quite a bit of experience printing Cyanotypes, Albumen, Van Dyke,
>>> etc... so my new challenge is the Calotype process.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm using the 3rd edition of James' book as a resource for printing and
>>> I'm using the "contemporary" version of the process outlined in his book,
>>> but I'm not getting results. I've had suggestions elsewhere that have urged
>>> me to attempt the Pelegry Calotype method rather than the basic one
>>> outlined in James' book, but I'd rather not give up so easily. I'm
>>> convinced I'm overlooking something, but after several attempts, I'm
>>> seeking out advice from the hive mind here.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Consistently, no image forms on my paper when developed. The paper
>>> develops and slowly turns dark brown, but no actual image develops. I'd
>>> immediately blame overexposure, but I've developed non-sensitized iodized
>>> calotype paper and had similar things happen in the developer, albeit with
>>> lighter browns, but still, it acts as if this non-sensitized iodized paper
>>> is exposed. Worried that it's overexposure from the safe lights, I've
>>> reduced my safelight usage to absolute minimum and reduced the number used
>>> to a single one, approximately 10 feet away from the paper. My only
>>> thoughts are that I'm either doing something completely wrong or maybe I'm
>>> misreading something.
>>>>> 
>>>>> So.. although provided in much finer detail in James' book, this is
>>> what I'm doing:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Created a 8% Silver Nitrate solution. Applied it to the paper (I've
>>> attempted both Rives BFK and Canson Sketch) with a new brush.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Created a 5.5% solution of Potassium Iodide to submerge the paper in.
>>> Submerged paper while still showing a sheen from the Silver Nitrate for 2
>>> minutes.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Washed the iodized paper for 2 hours, switching out tap water every
>>> 30-45 minutes and shuffling the paper, too.  Line dried the paper
>>> afterwards.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Coated the paper with an Aceto-Nitrate solution (11.4g Silver Nitrate
>>> in 100ml distilled w/ 19.4ml of glacial acetic added) - 4 drops to every
>>> 4ml of distilled.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Exposed (while damp but not wet) for both 2 & 4 minutes w/ a 4x5 camera
>>> at an aperture of 9.  An exposure of f/5.6 at 1 minute was suggested in the
>>> book in well-lit outdoors. It is -15F outside, so I'm shooting through my
>>> bay window.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Developed in a 1:1 solution of Aceto-Nitrate and saturated Gallic Acid
>>> (approximately 0.5% - its cold in my darkroom).
>>>>> 
>>>>> The paper slowly turns brown and then, within 4-5 minutes, is a rich
>>> dark brown.  Because it shows literally no image information, I haven't
>>> continued with the washing or fixing.
>>>>> 
>>>>> So... where am I messing up? I'd greatly appreciate any help I could
>>> get with this process. Has anyone had success with James' contemporary
>>> version? Its been suggested that I should switch to Alan Green's Primitive
>>> Photography book. Thoughts?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks to all.
>>>>> 
>>>>> J. Jason Lazarus
>>>>> Term Instructor, Photography
>>>>> University of Alaska Fairbanks
>>>>> https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
>>> www.obscura-works.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cd6b855d7d9684ad879ab08d557c7b43b%
>>> 7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636511437583394905&sdata=
>>> 0Z2XV2%2Fh7l5fWaXOuqZ249OOYOYcUavjdjxoBsC2Gew%3D&reserved=0
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Alt-photo-process-list | altphotolist.org
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Alt-photo-process-list | altphotolist.org
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Alt-photo-process-list | altphotolist.org
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Alt-photo-process-list | altphotolist.org
> 
> 
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> 
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