[Alt-photo] DOUG ISHIMURA, IPI re: DOES LIGNIN CONTENT IN PAPER KEEP IT FROM BEING ARCHIVAL?

bobkiss caribsurf.com bobkiss at caribsurf.com
Tue Jan 16 16:36:35 UTC 2018


DEAR SIEGFRIED,

     I would love a PDF of it because it is hard to get printed matter here in Barbados and many of the "Free" online book services (Google Books) will not allow us to download in this region.  Perhaps it is because the pirates are alive and well in the Caribbean but, instead of carrying sabers, they carry laptops and steal intellectual properties!  But they STILL have gold earrings!  LOL!!!

                                       CHEERS!
                                            BOB

----- Original Message -----
From: "alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org" <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
To: "Jacques Kevers" <jacqueskv at gmail.com>, "alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org" <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 11:59:12 AM
Subject: Re: [Alt-photo] DOUG ISHIMURA, IPI re: DOES LIGNIN CONTENT IN PAPER KEEP IT FROM BEING ARCHIVAL?

Christina,
The Complete Photographer (c 1942, 1943 & 1949) provides a discussion on
the sequence photo paper manufacturers went through to chemically process
wood pulp for photo paper manufacturing.
In the section titled Bromide Papers and Bromide Enlargements, by Lou
Gibson of Eastman Kodak, pg 500 the process is described, as well as a bit
of the paper making history for photo papers.
If you can't get a copy of this I'd be happy to PDF it for you.

On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 4:20 AM, Jacques Kevers via Alt-photo-process-list <
alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org> wrote:

> Early papers were made exclusively on rag paper, as wood pulp could not be
> purified sufficiently for photographic purposes until the first (mechanical
> or thermomechanical) processes  were replaced by chemical treatments such
> as the sulfite process. Research at the Eastman Kodak Co. following World
> War I led to a full conversion to wood pulp for papermaking in 1929. Other
> manufacturers made the conversion around that same time.
>
> Chemical treatments such as the sulfite process (sulfates was used for
> kraft paper) allowed for the complete elimination of lignins, gums, resins,
> etc..., the only drawback being on one side that the process being acidic,
> might hydrolyze some of the cellulose, and weaken the pulp fibers, and on
> the other side that acidic traces might remain and had to be neutralized in
> some way. In the 1980's, international standards were defined for
> acid-free, fully archival papers.
>
> I was in Paris yesterday to visit the Irving Penn show. Besides of the
> pt/pd prints, there were lots of original silver gelatin prints. It was
> interesting to compare side-by-side some of them from the late forties,
> with other other from the eighties or nineties. I was impressed as I was
> not able to detect any trace of aging, yellowing, etc.. whatsoever....
>
> Best,
> Jacques
>
>
> Jacques Kevers
> Beau Site
> Première Avenue 7
> B-1330 Rixensart
> Belgium
> +32 2 653 56 02
>
> 2018-01-16 4:18 GMT+01:00 Christina Z. Anderson via Alt-photo-process-list
> <
> alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>:
>
> > aHA. This is perfect. Thanks, Keith. When it says 100% sulphite from what
> > you are saying it seems that is a lignin free cellulose I am assuming.
> > I have not ordered from McClain’s yet. Is that a good source for Japanese
> > papers? Thanks for the web sources. I don’t think I am asking the right
> > search questions because so much stuff comes up that is not helpful.
> > Chris
> >
> > Christina Z. Anderson
> > Contemporary Practices in Alternative Process Photography series <
> > https://www.routledge.com/Contemporary-Practices-in-Alternative-Process-
> > Photography/book-series/CPAPP>
> >
> >
> > > On Jan 15, 2018, at 7:55 PM, Keith Schreiber <keith at jkschreiber.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > In a nutshell, alpha-cellulose it what we want whether it is from
> cotton
> > fiber, bast fibers, wood-pulp, or any other source. Cotton is a high
> alpha
> > cellulose fiber. The sulfite (sulphite) process is one way of obtaining
> it
> > from wood-pulp by removing the lignin and hemicellulose.
> > >
> > > Here are some links that might be of help:
> > >
> > > http://cameo.mfa.org/wiki/Alpha_cellulose <http://cameo.mfa.org/wiki/
> > Alpha_cellulose>
> > > http://cameo.mfa.org/wiki/Sulfite_process <http://cameo.mfa.org/wiki/
> > Sulfite_process>
> > >
> > > While I think a paper like Masa is probably fairly "archival", it has
> > other shortcomings due to short fibers which make for a weaker sheet, and
> > being too brightly bleached in my opinion. You might also be interested
> to
> > know that there is a hand-made dosa-sized paper called Masa available
> from
> > McClain's Printmaking Supply <http://www.imcclains.com/
> > catalog/paper/groupc.html> that is very nice.
> > >
> > > Keith
> > >
> > > Keith Schreiber
> > > jkschreiber.com <http://jkschreiber.com/>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> On Jan 15, 2018, at 6:49 PM, Christina Z. Anderson via
> > Alt-photo-process-list <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
> > <mailto:alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Bob,
> > >>
> > >> Thanks for checking on this, but I’m still unclear on one important
> > detail.
> > >>
> > >> Can you ask Doug if 100% sulphite or 100% high alpha cellulose is
> > lignin free? I thought I read that these removed lignin. The reason I ask
> > is there are some high end papers that have these ingredients now and
> Masa
> > is one that is 100% sulphite. And I don’t know a lignin from a hole in my
> > head so it’d sure clarify it for me :)
> > >>
> > >> Chris
> > >>
> > >> Christina Z. Anderson
> > >> Contemporary Practices in Alternative Process Photography series <
> > https://www.routledge.com/Contemporary-Practices-in-Alternative-Process-
> > Photography/book-series/CPAPP <https://www.routledge.com/
> > Contemporary-Practices-in-Alternative-Process-
> > Photography/book-series/CPAPP>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> On Jan 15, 2018, at 6:42 PM, bobkiss caribsurf.com <
> > http://caribsurf.com/> via Alt-photo-process-list <
> > alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org <mailto:alt-photo-process-
> > list at lists.altphotolist.org>> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Below is info from Doug Ishimura of IPI on lignins forwarded with his
> > permission:
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Lignin has been a very big issue in the deterioration of photographs.
> > Even the Fading Committee of 1855 noted that poor quality mount boards
> were
> > a cause for fading photographs.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> In the 1960s and again in the 1980s, lignin from poor quality
> > cardboard microfilm boxes were implicated in the formation of red spots
> or
> > redox blemishes on microfilm. These spots are a form of silver image
> > deterioration. As it turns out, the lignin, a complex, undefined organic
> > molecule, generates peroxides as it breaks down. It also produces
> molecules
> > that are referred to as chromophores that cause staining of the gelatin
> and
> > albumen in photographs.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Peroxides are bad because they can remove electrons from silver
> > converting image silver to mobile, silver ions (silver oxidation) and can
> > provide electrons to convert silver ions into elemental silver atoms
> > (reduction). This wouldn’t be a problem if both events occurred
> immediately
> > together, but they don’t and the silver ion has plenty of time to migrate
> > away from the silver image particle where it originated.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> The result that we see is yellow/orange/red staining of highlights
> and
> > mid-tones, silver mirroring, fading, and red spots.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> The photographic activity test in ISO 18916, which is required in the
> > enclosure standard, ISO 18902, looks for both staining of proteins such
> as
> > gelatin and albumen and silver particle oxidation or reduction.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> -Doug
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> From: bobkiss caribsurf.com <http://caribsurf.com/> [ [ mailto:
> > bobkiss at caribsurf.com <mailto:bobkiss at caribsurf.com> | mailto:
> > bobkiss at caribsurf.com <mailto:bobkiss at caribsurf.com> ] ]
> > >>> Sent: Monday, January 15, 2018 11:26 AM
> > >>> To: Douglas Nishimura < [ mailto:dwnpph at rit.edu <mailto:
> dwnpph at rit.edu>
> > | dwnpph at rit.edu <mailto:dwnpph at rit.edu> ] >
> > >>> Subject: DOES LIGNIN CONTENT IN PAPER KEEP IT FROM BEING ARCHIVAL?
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> DEAR DOUG,
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Does lignin content in paper keep it from being archival? I seem to
> > recall that we used 100% cotton paper for our hand made prints because it
> > was lignin free.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> CHEERS!
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> BOB
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> Alt-photo-process-list | altphotolist.org <http://altphotolist.org/>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Alt-photo-process-list | altphotolist.org <http://altphotolist.org/>
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Alt-photo-process-list | altphotolist.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
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