[Frameworks] FrameWorks Digest, Vol 20, Issue 30

Ken Paul Rosenthal kenpaulrosenthal at hotmail.com
Tue Jan 24 18:27:51 CST 2012




www.crookedbeautythefilm.com  (Academic)www.crookedbeauty.com  (Public)www.kenpaulrosenthal.com

> From: frameworks-request at jonasmekasfilms.com
> Subject: FrameWorks Digest, Vol 20, Issue 30
> To: frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com
> Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 09:43:25 -0600
> 
> Send FrameWorks mailing list submissions to
> 	frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	frameworks-request at jonasmekasfilms.com
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	frameworks-owner at jonasmekasfilms.com
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of FrameWorks digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. yellow 16mm cans (Stephen Broomer)
>    2. Re: yellow 16mm cans (40 Frames)
>    3. Re: seeking double perf film (sarah browne)
>    4. Re: yellow 16mm cans (Pip Chodorov)
>    5. Re: seeking double perf film (Myron Ort)
>    6. Re: seeking double perf film (Steven Gladstone)
>    7. Re: seeking double perf film (Myron Ort)
>    8. Re: seeking double perf film (Nicholas Kovats)
>    9. Re: seeking double perf film (Nicholas Kovats)
>   10. Re: seeking double perf film (John Woods)
>   11. Re: seeking double perf film (Carlileb at aol.com)
>   12. Re: seeking double perf film (Carlileb at aol.com)
>   13. Re: seeking double perf film (Nicholas Kovats)
>   14. Alchemy / James Whitney's Dwija (1973) (Richard Ashrowan)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 15:01:37 -0500
> From: Stephen Broomer <stephen_broomer at hotmail.com>
> Subject: [Frameworks] yellow 16mm cans
> To: Experimental Film Discussion List <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>
> Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP115CC7C3B863A46D12F2DB18B8A0 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Dear Frameworkers,
> 
> I'm colour-coding my negs and exhibition prints, and am looking for yellow 16mm plastic cans, preferably vented. Urbanski Film Supplies only carries grey, and companies like Tuscan and STIL Casing only make colour cans by custom order (STIL's sales reps have kindly put me on a waiting list for smaller run cartons of yellow cases). For the time being, where would I find such things? I'm looking in a range of sizes, but for the time being, am specifically looking for 20 400' cans.
> 
> I asked this question on the AMIA list, and the response was to use tape or choose another system. I'm hoping that either someone here knows of an archive that uses yellow cans, has an overstock of them and might be willing to resell, or someone might be able to point me toward a supplier who carries such things.
> 
> Thanks!
> Stephen Broomer
> Toronto, Canada
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 12:26:59 -0800
> From: 40 Frames <info at 40frames.org>
> Subject: Re: [Frameworks] yellow 16mm cans
> To: Experimental Film Discussion List <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAAUwOmNB+741RqUG7DhiC-8m-HJ0vFGsGoObLr-XsRYpEPvfmA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Did you try Wittner?
> http://www.16mmdirectory.org/search?q=wittner
> 
> They might have suggestions as well, if they do not carry such a thing.
> 
> 
> Alain
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 12:01 PM, Stephen Broomer <
> stephen_broomer at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Dear Frameworkers,
> >
> > I'm colour-coding my negs and exhibition prints, and am looking for yellow
> > 16mm plastic cans, preferably vented. Urbanski Film Supplies only carries
> > grey, and companies like Tuscan and STIL Casing only make colour cans by
> > custom order (STIL's sales reps have kindly put me on a waiting list for
> > smaller run cartons of yellow cases). For the time being, where would I
> > find such things? I'm looking in a range of sizes, but for the time being,
> > am specifically looking for 20 400' cans.
> >
> > I asked this question on the AMIA list, and the response was to use tape
> > or choose another system. I'm hoping that either someone here knows of an
> > archive that uses yellow cans, has an overstock of them and might be
> > willing to resell, or someone might be able to point me toward a supplier
> > who carries such things.
> >
> > Thanks!
> > Stephen Broomer
> > Toronto, Canada
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > FrameWorks mailing list
> > FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com
> > https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 40 FRAMES
> Alain LeTourneau
> Pam Minty
> 
> 40 FRAMES
> 5232 North Williams Avenue
> Portland, Oregon 97217
> USA
> 
> +1 503 231 6548
> www.40frames.org
> www.16mmdirectory.org
> www.emptyquarterfilm.org
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/pipermail/frameworks/attachments/20120123/eb2291fb/attachment-0001.html 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 20:50:37 +0000
> From: sarah browne <sarahjbrowne at yahoo.ie>
> Subject: Re: [Frameworks] seeking double perf film
> To: Experimental Film Discussion List <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>
> Message-ID: <4F1DC81D.5010006 at yahoo.ie>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Hi Nikolas,
> 
> That's amazingly comprehensive. Thanks!
> 
> I'm looking for double perf 16mm to use as is with a high speed 16mm 
> camera - nothing to do with 8mm, I should have specified that.
> 
> For anyone else who's interested, it looks like Spectra in the US have 
> some, though only rolls of 100ft, colour and b/w. As you said. Kodak in 
> the UK seem to have nothing to do with the US distributors, and Fuji was 
> the same - nothing to be had and neither were very helpful.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Sarah
> 
> On 23/01/2012 16:40, Nicholas Kovats wrote:
> > Sarah,
> >
> > Which format are you referring to? i.e. 16mm 2 perf ->  2R-2994 or R8 2
> > perf ->   2R-1497. Are you seeking to re-perforate 2 perf 16mm stock
> > into 2 perf R8?
> >
> > This is a current list of Kodak 2 perf 16mm stock 2R-2994 (acetate based), i.e.
> >
> > a.) Catalog schema ->  2R (2x perf) 2994 (pitch in 1/10000 inch).
> > b.) 2011 Kodak catalog source ->
> > http://motion.kodak.com/motion/uploadedFiles/QA_MotionPictureCatalog_May15_2011.pdf
> >
> > 1. KODAK VISION3 500T Color Negative Film 7219
> > cat# min order net unit net price effective date
> > SP449 / 16 mm x 100 ft roll / Camera Spool / 2R-2994 1240761 1 1-+
> > 37.57 03/05/2010
> > SP578 / 16 mm x 400 ft roll / Camera Spool / 2R-2994 1908789 5 1-+
> > 147.93 03/05/2010
> > SP451 / 16 mm x 400 ft roll / On Core / 2R-2994 1270982 1 1-+ 146.18 03/05/2010
> >
> > 2. KODAK VISION3 250D Color Negative Film 7207
> > SP578 / 16 mm x 400 ft roll / Camera Spool 2R-2994 8110298 5 1-+
> > 147.93 03/05/2010
> >
> > 3. KODAK VISION3 200T Color Negative Film 7213
> > SP449 / 16 mm x 100 ft roll / Camera Spool / 2R-2994 8765612 18 1-+
> > 37.57 05/26/2010
> > SP451 / 16 mm x 400 ft roll / On Core / 2R-2994 1102680 1 1-+ 146.18 05/26/2010
> >
> > 4. KODAK EKTACHROME 100D Color Reversal Film 7285
> > 16 mm with 8 mm Perforations
> > SP467 / 16 mm x 400 ft roll / On Core, (Type R) / 2R-1497 8679318 20
> > 1-+ 141.92 11/08/2006
> >
> > 5. KODAK TRI-X Reversal Film 7266
> > 16 mm with 8 mm Perforations
> > SP467 / 16 mm x 400 ft roll / On Core / 2R-1497 8751935 5 1-+ 86.69 02/02/2010
> >
> > 6. KODAK VISION Color Intermediate Film 7242
> > 35 mm with 16 mm perforations
> > SP452 / 16 mm x 1200 ft roll / On Core / 2R-2994 1791284 2 1-+ 365.28
> > 03/01/2002
> > SP452 / 16 mm x 2000 ft roll / On Core / 2R-2994 1689488 2 1-+ 608.80 03/01/2002
> >
> > 7. EASTMAN Color Internegative II Film 7272
> > CIT452 / 16 mm x 1200 ft roll / On Core / 2R-2994 1020718 1 1-+
> > 618.54 02/15/2009
> >
> > 8. EASTMAN Fine Grain Duplicating Panchromatic Negative Film 5234 / 7234
> > FDN452 / 16 mm x 2000 ft roll / On Core / 2R-2994 1959766 2 1-+ 375.06
> > 02/15/2009
> >
> > In theory all 2 perf stocks are shippable anywhere but in practice
> > Kodak US/Canada do not seem to coordinate very well with Kodak UK.
> >
> > Cheers!
> >
> > Nicholas
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 6:44 AM, sarah browne<sarahjbrowne at yahoo.ie>  wrote:
> >> Hi everyone,
> >>
> >> Anyone have any leads for double perf stock shippable to Ireland / UK?
> >>
> >> Ardmore / Kodak, Fuji UK and filmclearance.co.uk have so far drawn a blank.
> >> Tips very welcome!
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >> Sarah
> >>
> >> www.sarahbrowne.info
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> FrameWorks mailing list
> >> FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com
> >> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > FrameWorks mailing list
> > FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com
> > https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/pipermail/frameworks/attachments/20120123/86f0ab61/attachment-0001.html 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 22:12:28 +0100
> From: Pip Chodorov <frameworks at re-voir.com>
> Subject: Re: [Frameworks] yellow 16mm cans
> To: Experimental Film Discussion List <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>
> Message-ID: <p0624081ccb437d98bc82@[192.168.0.13]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
> 
> Did MPE in New York stop making these? I use to get all colors of 
> reels and cans there on west 44th street.
> 
> 
> At 15:01 -0500 23/01/12, Stephen Broomer wrote:
> >Dear Frameworkers,
> >
> >I'm colour-coding my negs and exhibition prints, and am looking for 
> >yellow 16mm plastic cans,
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 15:21:52 -0800
> From: Myron Ort <zeno at sonic.net>
> Subject: Re: [Frameworks] seeking double perf film
> To: Experimental Film Discussion List <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>
> Message-ID: <DD50DEE3-4EB1-4464-BCF5-114D69A84FD2 at sonic.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> double perf versus double 8mm
> 
> 
> On Jan 23, 2012, at 12:50 PM, sarah browne wrote:
> 
> > Hi Nikolas,
> >
> > That's amazingly comprehensive. Thanks!
> >
> > I'm looking for double perf 16mm to use as is with a high speed  
> > 16mm camera - nothing to do with 8mm, I should have specified that.
> >
> > For anyone else who's interested, it looks like Spectra in the US  
> > have some, though only rolls of 100ft, colour and b/w. As you said.  
> > Kodak in the UK seem to have nothing to do with the US  
> > distributors, and Fuji was the same - nothing to be had and neither  
> > were very helpful.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Sarah
> >
> > On 23/01/2012 16:40, Nicholas Kovats wrote:
> >>
> >> Sarah,
> >>
> >> Which format are you referring to? i.e. 16mm 2 perf -> 2R-2994 or  
> >> R8 2
> >> perf ->  2R-1497. Are you seeking to re-perforate 2 perf 16mm stock
> >> into 2 perf R8?
> >>
> >> This is a current list of Kodak 2 perf 16mm stock 2R-2994 (acetate  
> >> based), i.e.
> >>
> >> a.) Catalog schema -> 2R (2x perf) 2994 (pitch in 1/10000 inch).
> >> b.) 2011 Kodak catalog source ->
> >> http://motion.kodak.com/motion/uploadedFiles/ 
> >> QA_MotionPictureCatalog_May15_2011.pdf
> >>
> >> 1. KODAK VISION3 500T Color Negative Film 7219
> >> cat# min order net unit net price effective date
> >> SP449 / 16 mm x 100 ft roll / Camera Spool / 2R-2994 1240761 1 1-+
> >> 37.57 03/05/2010
> >> SP578 / 16 mm x 400 ft roll / Camera Spool / 2R-2994 1908789 5 1-+
> >> 147.93 03/05/2010
> >> SP451 / 16 mm x 400 ft roll / On Core / 2R-2994 1270982 1 1-+  
> >> 146.18 03/05/2010
> >>
> >> 2. KODAK VISION3 250D Color Negative Film 7207
> >> SP578 / 16 mm x 400 ft roll / Camera Spool 2R-2994 8110298 5 1-+
> >> 147.93 03/05/2010
> >>
> >> 3. KODAK VISION3 200T Color Negative Film 7213
> >> SP449 / 16 mm x 100 ft roll / Camera Spool / 2R-2994 8765612 18 1-+
> >> 37.57 05/26/2010
> >> SP451 / 16 mm x 400 ft roll / On Core / 2R-2994 1102680 1 1-+  
> >> 146.18 05/26/2010
> >>
> >> 4. KODAK EKTACHROME 100D Color Reversal Film 7285
> >> 16 mm with 8 mm Perforations
> >> SP467 / 16 mm x 400 ft roll / On Core, (Type R) / 2R-1497 8679318 20
> >> 1-+ 141.92 11/08/2006
> >>
> >> 5. KODAK TRI-X Reversal Film 7266
> >> 16 mm with 8 mm Perforations
> >> SP467 / 16 mm x 400 ft roll / On Core / 2R-1497 8751935 5 1-+  
> >> 86.69 02/02/2010
> >>
> >> 6. KODAK VISION Color Intermediate Film 7242
> >> 35 mm with 16 mm perforations
> >> SP452 / 16 mm x 1200 ft roll / On Core / 2R-2994 1791284 2 1-+  
> >> 365.28
> >> 03/01/2002
> >> SP452 / 16 mm x 2000 ft roll / On Core / 2R-2994 1689488 2 1-+  
> >> 608.80 03/01/2002
> >>
> >> 7. EASTMAN Color Internegative II Film 7272
> >> CIT452 / 16 mm x 1200 ft roll / On Core / 2R-2994 1020718 1 1-+
> >> 618.54 02/15/2009
> >>
> >> 8. EASTMAN Fine Grain Duplicating Panchromatic Negative Film  
> >> 5234 / 7234
> >> FDN452 / 16 mm x 2000 ft roll / On Core / 2R-2994 1959766 2 1-+  
> >> 375.06
> >> 02/15/2009
> >>
> >> In theory all 2 perf stocks are shippable anywhere but in practice
> >> Kodak US/Canada do not seem to coordinate very well with Kodak UK.
> >>
> >> Cheers!
> >>
> >> Nicholas
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 6:44 AM, sarah browne  
> >> <sarahjbrowne at yahoo.ie> wrote:
> >>> Hi everyone,
> >>>
> >>> Anyone have any leads for double perf stock shippable to  
> >>> Ireland / UK?
> >>>
> >>> Ardmore / Kodak, Fuji UK and filmclearance.co.uk have so far  
> >>> drawn a blank.
> >>> Tips very welcome!
> >>>
> >>> Thanks
> >>>
> >>> Sarah
> >>>
> >>> www.sarahbrowne.info
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> FrameWorks mailing list
> >>> FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com
> >>> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> FrameWorks mailing list
> >> FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com
> >> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
> > _______________________________________________
> > FrameWorks mailing list
> > FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com
> > https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
> 
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/pipermail/frameworks/attachments/20120123/76cd313c/attachment-0001.html 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 19:03:31 -0500
> From: Steven Gladstone <Steven at gladstonefilms.com>
> Subject: Re: [Frameworks] seeking double perf film
> To: Experimental Film Discussion List <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>
> Message-ID: <4F1DF553.3080507 at gladstonefilms.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> 
> On 1/23/12 6:21 PM, Myron Ort wrote:
> > double perf versus double 8mm
> 
> I always thought you could shoot double 8mm in 16mm, and when it was 
> processed you would just have an extra set of unused perfs (might be a 
> problem with frame lines if you were off by a perf.) I never tried it, 
> so I might be wrong, but I thought the perfs were the same size.
> 
> On another note. I have a Redlake Hycam, and would really be happy if 
> someone wanted to come take it off my hands. While I'd prefer a 501C for 
> tax purposes, in the end I'd like it to go to a good home that would use it.
> 
> I'm located in Brooklyn, N.Y.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Steven Gladstone
> New York Based Cinematographer
> Gladstone films
> Blog - http://indiekicker.reelgrok.com/
> http://www.blakehousemovie.com
> http://www.gladstonefilms.com
> 917-886-5858
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 16:52:26 -0800
> From: Myron Ort <zeno at sonic.net>
> Subject: Re: [Frameworks] seeking double perf film
> To: Experimental Film Discussion List <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>
> Message-ID: <EB59F1CC-140A-4D7C-BB7F-03AA30794179 at sonic.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
> 
> There is double perf 16mm, and Double 8mm which is double perf 16  
> with an extra set of sprocket holes such that if split it becomes  
> Reg. 8mm.
> Yes Double 8mm could be shot in a 16mm camera or in a Reg.8 mm camera.
> Then it could be spit or not split, yielding several possible  
> "special effects":
> 
> 
> 1. shot in Reg. 8 camera, not split= frame quarters seen, one side  
> upside down unless anticipated in shooting.
> 2. shot in 16mm, then split = flicker effect, alternate frame  
> quadrants.  See example below.
> 3. shot in 16mm camera, projected one sprocket displaced= half screen  
> effect, horizontal split, top and bottom of frame.
> 4. shot in 16mm camera, double exposed in 8mm camera, then split. Any  
> number of possible variations or possible multiple exposures with   
> this kind of thinking.
> 5. who knows what you might come up with.
> 
> 
> Here is a film that was  double 8mm film stock shot in a 16mm camera,  
> meant to be used simply as 16mm, but I accidentally slit  it, so  
> there ended up two rolls (the two halves) of Reg. 8
> with the flicker effect of alternating quadrants, then, after  
> telecine,  I juxtaposed the two halves side by side in "chronological  
> shooting order"  in fcp, yielding this double screen effect with the  
> rather mysterious
> connections between the two halves. Note that one half of the split  
> double 8mm had to be telecined as A-wind, the other half B-wind in  
> order for this to properly work out.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch? 
> v=l4cNZLv5o9M&list=UUhNv2f1M4EKeyTB68E_n5dg&index=8&feature=plcp
> 
> Myron Ort
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Jan 23, 2012, at 4:03 PM, Steven Gladstone wrote:
> 
> > On 1/23/12 6:21 PM, Myron Ort wrote:
> >> double perf versus double 8mm
> >
> > I always thought you could shoot double 8mm in 16mm, and when it was
> > processed you would just have an extra set of unused perfs (might be a
> > problem with frame lines if you were off by a perf.) I never tried it,
> > so I might be wrong, but I thought the perfs were the same size.
> >
> > On another note. I have a Redlake Hycam, and would really be happy if
> > someone wanted to come take it off my hands. While I'd prefer a  
> > 501C for
> > tax purposes, in the end I'd like it to go to a good home that  
> > would use it.
> >
> > I'm located in Brooklyn, N.Y.
> >
> >
> > -- 
> > Steven Gladstone
> > New York Based Cinematographer
> > Gladstone films
> > Blog - http://indiekicker.reelgrok.com/
> > http://www.blakehousemovie.com
> > http://www.gladstonefilms.com
> > 917-886-5858
> > _______________________________________________
> > FrameWorks mailing list
> > FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com
> > https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
> >
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 20:34:50 -0500
> From: Nicholas Kovats <nkovats at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Frameworks] seeking double perf film
> To: Experimental Film Discussion List <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAARfJiJAWaTfehn+EtdNoQ+m-8NrwuOdX6RTi8dU9mDFQW=atQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> Two perf R8 film (2R-1477) is also utilized in my UltraPan8 format to
> produce a native spherical aspect ratio of 2.8:1, i.e.
> 
> http://vimeo.com/27492482
> http://vimeo.com/27905787
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 7:52 PM, Myron Ort <zeno at sonic.net> wrote:
> > There is double perf 16mm, and Double 8mm which is double perf 16
> > with an extra set of sprocket holes such that if split it becomes
> > Reg. 8mm.
> > Yes Double 8mm could be shot in a 16mm camera or in a Reg.8 mm camera.
> > Then it could be spit or not split, yielding several possible
> > "special effects":
> >
> >
> > 1. shot in Reg. 8 camera, not split= frame quarters seen, one side
> > upside down unless anticipated in shooting.
> > 2. shot in 16mm, then split = flicker effect, alternate frame
> > quadrants.  See example below.
> > 3. shot in 16mm camera, projected one sprocket displaced= half screen
> > effect, horizontal split, top and bottom of frame.
> > 4. shot in 16mm camera, double exposed in 8mm camera, then split. Any
> > number of possible variations or possible multiple exposures with
> > this kind of thinking.
> > 5. who knows what you might come up with.
> >
> >
> > Here is a film that was  double 8mm film stock shot in a 16mm camera,
> > meant to be used simply as 16mm, but I accidentally slit  it, so
> > there ended up two rolls (the two halves) of Reg. 8
> > with the flicker effect of alternating quadrants, then, after
> > telecine,  I juxtaposed the two halves side by side in "chronological
> > shooting order"  in fcp, yielding this double screen effect with the
> > rather mysterious
> > connections between the two halves. Note that one half of the split
> > double 8mm had to be telecined as A-wind, the other half B-wind in
> > order for this to properly work out.
> >
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?
> > v=l4cNZLv5o9M&list=UUhNv2f1M4EKeyTB68E_n5dg&index=8&feature=plcp
> >
> > Myron Ort
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Jan 23, 2012, at 4:03 PM, Steven Gladstone wrote:
> >
> >> On 1/23/12 6:21 PM, Myron Ort wrote:
> >>> double perf versus double 8mm
> >>
> >> I always thought you could shoot double 8mm in 16mm, and when it was
> >> processed you would just have an extra set of unused perfs (might be a
> >> problem with frame lines if you were off by a perf.) I never tried it,
> >> so I might be wrong, but I thought the perfs were the same size.
> >>
> >> On another note. I have a Redlake Hycam, and would really be happy if
> >> someone wanted to come take it off my hands. While I'd prefer a
> >> 501C for
> >> tax purposes, in the end I'd like it to go to a good home that
> >> would use it.
> >>
> >> I'm located in Brooklyn, N.Y.
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Steven Gladstone
> >> New York Based Cinematographer
> >> Gladstone films
> >> Blog - http://indiekicker.reelgrok.com/
> >> http://www.blakehousemovie.com
> >> http://www.gladstonefilms.com
> >> 917-886-5858
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> FrameWorks mailing list
> >> FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com
> >> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > FrameWorks mailing list
> > FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com
> > https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 9
> Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 20:58:53 -0500
> From: Nicholas Kovats <nkovats at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Frameworks] seeking double perf film
> To: Experimental Film Discussion List <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAARfJiLrgjjV9=Ydup6unDF8yxwFs9gzdsehv2WNC_9gA8NPSQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> Hi Sarah,
> 
> Then you are seeking specifically 2R-3000 16mm stock for high speed
> cams. And certain printers if you are so inclined to experiment.
> 
> 2R = 2 perforations
> 3000 = pitch in inches (1/10000)
> 72xx/73xx = prefix designates acetate film.
> 
> The Kodak players:
> 
> 1. KODAK VISION3 500T Color Negative Film 7219
> 2. KODAK TRI-X Reversal Film 7266
> 3. EASTMAN Fine Grain Duplicating Positive Film  7366
> 4. KODAK VISION Color Print Film 3383. *Polyester base. May cause
> issues. Thinner than acetate.
> 5. EASTMAN Fine Grain Release Positive Film 7302
> 
> What high speed 2 perf camera do you have access to?
> 
> On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 3:50 PM, sarah browne <sarahjbrowne at yahoo.ie> wrote:
> > Hi Nikolas,
> >
> > That's amazingly comprehensive. Thanks!
> >
> > I'm looking for double perf 16mm to use as is with a high speed 16mm camera
> > - nothing to do with 8mm, I should have specified that.
> >
> > For anyone else who's interested, it looks like Spectra in the US have some,
> > though only rolls of 100ft, colour and b/w. As you said. Kodak in the UK
> > seem to have nothing to do with the US distributors, and Fuji was the same -
> > nothing to be had and neither were very helpful.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Sarah
> >
> > On 23/01/2012 16:40, Nicholas Kovats wrote:
> >
> > Sarah,
> >
> > Which format are you referring to? i.e. 16mm 2 perf -> 2R-2994 or R8 2
> > perf ->  2R-1497. Are you seeking to re-perforate 2 perf 16mm stock
> > into 2 perf R8?
> >
> > This is a current list of Kodak 2 perf 16mm stock 2R-2994 (acetate based),
> > i.e.
> >
> > a.) Catalog schema -> 2R (2x perf) 2994 (pitch in 1/10000 inch).
> > b.) 2011 Kodak catalog source ->
> > http://motion.kodak.com/motion/uploadedFiles/QA_MotionPictureCatalog_May15_2011.pdf
> >
> > 1. KODAK VISION3 500T Color Negative Film 7219
> > cat# min order net unit net price effective date
> > SP449 / 16 mm x 100 ft roll / Camera Spool / 2R-2994 1240761 1 1-+
> > 37.57 03/05/2010
> > SP578 / 16 mm x 400 ft roll / Camera Spool / 2R-2994 1908789  5 1-+
> > 147.93 03/05/2010
> > SP451 / 16 mm x 400 ft roll / On Core / 2R-2994 1270982 1 1-+ 146.18
> > 03/05/2010
> >
> > 2. KODAK VISION3 250D Color Negative Film 7207
> > SP578 / 16 mm x 400 ft roll / Camera Spool 2R-2994 8110298  5 1-+
> > 147.93 03/05/2010
> >
> > 3. KODAK VISION3 200T Color Negative Film 7213
> > SP449 / 16 mm x 100 ft roll / Camera Spool / 2R-2994 8765612  18 1-+
> > 37.57 05/26/2010
> > SP451 / 16 mm x 400 ft roll / On Core / 2R-2994 1102680  1 1-+ 146.18
> > 05/26/2010
> >
> > 4. KODAK EKTACHROME 100D Color Reversal Film 7285
> > 16 mm with 8 mm Perforations
> > SP467 / 16 mm x 400 ft roll / On Core, (Type R) / 2R-1497 8679318  20
> > 1-+ 141.92 11/08/2006
> >
> > 5. KODAK TRI-X Reversal Film 7266
> > 16 mm with 8 mm Perforations
> > SP467 / 16 mm x 400 ft roll / On Core / 2R-1497 8751935  5 1-+ 86.69
> > 02/02/2010
> >
> > 6. KODAK VISION Color Intermediate Film 7242
> > 35 mm with 16 mm perforations
> > SP452 / 16 mm x 1200 ft roll / On Core / 2R-2994 1791284  2 1-+ 365.28
> > 03/01/2002
> > SP452 / 16 mm x 2000 ft roll / On Core / 2R-2994 1689488 2 1-+ 608.80
> > 03/01/2002
> >
> > 7. EASTMAN Color Internegative II Film 7272
> > CIT452 / 16 mm x 1200 ft roll / On Core / 2R-2994 1020718  1 1-+
> > 618.54 02/15/2009
> >
> > 8. EASTMAN Fine Grain Duplicating Panchromatic Negative Film 5234 / 7234
> > FDN452 / 16 mm x 2000 ft roll / On Core / 2R-2994 1959766 2 1-+ 375.06
> > 02/15/2009
> >
> > In theory all 2 perf stocks are shippable anywhere but in practice
> > Kodak US/Canada do not seem to coordinate very well with Kodak UK.
> >
> > Cheers!
> >
> > Nicholas
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 6:44 AM, sarah browne <sarahjbrowne at yahoo.ie> wrote:
> >
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > Anyone have any leads for double perf stock shippable to Ireland / UK?
> >
> > Ardmore / Kodak, Fuji UK and filmclearance.co.uk have so far drawn a blank.
> > Tips very welcome!
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Sarah
> >
> > www.sarahbrowne.info
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > FrameWorks mailing list
> > FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com
> > https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > FrameWorks mailing list
> > FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com
> > https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > FrameWorks mailing list
> > FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com
> > https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
> >
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 10
> Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 21:06:29 -0800 (PST)
> From: John Woods <jawoods01 at yahoo.ca>
> Subject: Re: [Frameworks] seeking double perf film
> To: Experimental Film Discussion List <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>
> Message-ID:
> 	<1327381589.38331.YahooMailNeo at web120501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> There is apparently a guy in England that re-perfs 2R film for use as regular 8. I don't see why you couldn't provide him with a single perf film of your choice and he could then make into 2R film for you. 
> 
> His information is in this thread:
> 
> http://www.filmshooting.com/scripts/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=22342
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
>  From: sarah browne <sarahjbrowne at yahoo.ie>
> To: frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com 
> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 3:44:36 AM
> Subject: [Frameworks] seeking double perf film
>  
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> Anyone have any leads for double perf stock shippable to Ireland /
>       UK?
> 
> Ardmore / Kodak, Fuji UK and filmclearance.co.uk have so far drawn
>       a blank. Tips very welcome! 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Sarah
> 
> www.sarahbrowne.info 
> _______________________________________________
> FrameWorks mailing list
> FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com
> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/pipermail/frameworks/attachments/20120123/9440e682/attachment-0001.html 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 11
> Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 00:26:51 -0500 (EST)
> From: Carlileb at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [Frameworks] seeking double perf film
> To: frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com
> Message-ID: <cb43.5225dd6c.3c4f9b1b at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
>  
> Maybe Spectra can order some up, and then ship it to you?
>  
> It would actually be rather easy for them to do this-- they can just run  
> down to the Hollywood distribution center and pick anything up for you, and 
> then  send it on its way to Ireland. Or even have it delivered to them.
>  
> Hollywood has everything in stock-- but remember, there are some minimum  
> quantities on most double-perf.
>  
> I think your best bet would be the acetate b/w print film. It's cheaper  
> too, and I don't think there's a minimum. That and some of the other b/w lab  
> stocks will soon be history, I fear, so stock up. B/w print film can also be 
>  reversed to produce a projectable image, just like Tri-X. It has a low ASA 
>  though.
>  
> Kodak used to supply an acetate sound film but I believe it was recently  
> discontinued, with Estar the only alternative. Their high-contrast titling 
> film  is good also, and useful for many purposes.
>  
> BTW, do you know the pitch of your high-speed camera? You might be in  
> luck-- many of them are .3000. 
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> In a message dated 1/23/2012 3:22:14 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
> zeno at sonic.net writes:
> 
> Hi Nikolas,
> 
> That's  amazingly comprehensive. Thanks!
> 
> I'm looking for double perf 16mm to  use as is with a high speed 16mm 
> camera - nothing to do with 8mm, I should  have specified that.
> 
> For anyone else who's interested, it looks like  Spectra in the US have 
> some, though only rolls of 100ft, colour and b/w. As  you said. Kodak in the UK 
> seem to have nothing to do with the US distributors,  and Fuji was the same 
> - nothing to be had and neither were very  helpful.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/pipermail/frameworks/attachments/20120124/d8439530/attachment-0001.html 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 12
> Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 00:48:17 -0500 (EST)
> From: Carlileb at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [Frameworks] seeking double perf film
> To: frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com
> Message-ID: <ced8.2e12cac3.3c4fa021 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
>  
> In case anyone's interested, the catalog's right here:
>  
> _http://motion.kodak.com/motion/Products/Product_Information/index.htm_ 
> (http://motion.kodak.com/motion/Products/Product_Information/index.htm) 
>  
> I think your best bet is to go with the 7363 high-contrast b/w film, if you 
>  want camera pitch (.2994.) It's really cheap, something like $50 for 400 
> feet  and no minimum.
>  
> If you want lab or high-speed pitch (.3000), go with the 7302 positive b/w  
> print film. It's cheap too-- $180 for 2,000 feet, with only a 2-core  
> minimum.
>  
> Both can be processed as either negative or reversal. Both are acetate and  
> available in 2-perf. I'd avoid polyester, and be sure to get the right 
> pitch. On  those cameras it's probably .3000. 
>  
> If you want to get really fancy, Kodak also supplies 2-perf Tri-X in a  
> high-speed .3000 pitch. It's something like $80 for 400 feet, with no minimum.  
> The same price as regular 16mm Tri-X.
>  
> I'd be very surprised if these films are still available in a year, btw. I  
> can't imagine how little they must sell.
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> In a message dated 1/23/2012 3:22:14 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
> zeno at sonic.net writes:
> 
> double  perf versus double 8mm  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Jan 23, 2012, at 12:50 PM, sarah browne wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi  Nikolas,
> 
> That's amazingly comprehensive. Thanks!
> 
> I'm looking  for double perf 16mm to use as is with a high speed 16mm 
> camera - nothing to  do with 8mm, I should have specified that.
> 
> For anyone else who's  interested, it looks like Spectra in the US have 
> some, though only rolls of  100ft, colour and b/w. As you said. Kodak in the UK 
> seem to have nothing to  do with the US distributors, and Fuji was the same 
> - nothing to be had and  neither were very helpful.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Sarah
> 
> On  23/01/2012 16:40, Nicholas Kovats wrote:  
> Sarah,
> 
> 
> 
> Which format are you referring to? i.e. 16mm 2 perf -> 2R-2994 or R8 2
> 
> perf ->  2R-1497. Are you seeking to re-perforate 2 perf 16mm stock
> 
> into 2 perf R8?
> 
> 
> 
> This is a current list of Kodak 2 perf 16mm stock 2R-2994 (acetate based), 
> i.e.
> 
> 
> 
> a.) Catalog schema -> 2R (2x perf) 2994 (pitch in 1/10000 inch).
> 
> b.) 2011 Kodak catalog source ->
> 
> _http://motion.kodak.com/motion/uploadedFiles/QA_MotionPictureCatalog_May15_
> 2011.pdf_ 
> (http://motion.kodak.com/motion/uploadedFiles/QA_MotionPictureCatalog_May15_2011.pdf) 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. KODAK VISION3 500T Color Negative Film 7219
> 
> cat# min order net unit net price effective date
> 
> SP449 / 16 mm x 100 ft roll / Camera Spool / 2R-2994 1240761 1 1-+
> 
> 37.57 03/05/2010
> 
> SP578 / 16 mm x 400 ft roll / Camera Spool / 2R-2994 1908789 5 1-+
> 
> 147.93 03/05/2010
> 
> SP451 / 16 mm x 400 ft roll / On Core / 2R-2994 1270982 1 1-+ 146.18 
> 03/05/2010
> 
> 
> 
> 2. KODAK VISION3 250D Color Negative Film 7207
> 
> SP578 / 16 mm x 400 ft roll / Camera Spool 2R-2994 8110298 5 1-+
> 
> 147.93 03/05/2010
> 
> 
> 
> 3. KODAK VISION3 200T Color Negative Film 7213
> 
> SP449 / 16 mm x 100 ft roll / Camera Spool / 2R-2994 8765612 18 1-+
> 
> 37.57 05/26/2010
> 
> SP451 / 16 mm x 400 ft roll / On Core / 2R-2994 1102680 1 1-+ 146.18 
> 05/26/2010
> 
> 
> 
> 4. KODAK EKTACHROME 100D Color Reversal Film 7285
> 
> 16 mm with 8 mm Perforations
> 
> SP467 / 16 mm x 400 ft roll / On Core, (Type R) / 2R-1497 8679318 20
> 
> 1-+ 141.92 11/08/2006
> 
> 
> 
> 5. KODAK TRI-X Reversal Film 7266
> 
> 16 mm with 8 mm Perforations
> 
> SP467 / 16 mm x 400 ft roll / On Core / 2R-1497 8751935 5 1-+ 86.69 
> 02/02/2010
> 
> 
> 
> 6. KODAK VISION Color Intermediate Film 7242
> 
> 35 mm with 16 mm perforations
> 
> SP452 / 16 mm x 1200 ft roll / On Core / 2R-2994 1791284 2 1-+ 365.28
> 
> 03/01/2002
> 
> SP452 / 16 mm x 2000 ft roll / On Core / 2R-2994 1689488 2 1-+ 608.80 
> 03/01/2002
> 
> 
> 
> 7. EASTMAN Color Internegative II Film 7272
> 
> CIT452 / 16 mm x 1200 ft roll / On Core / 2R-2994 1020718 1 1-+
> 
> 618.54 02/15/2009
> 
> 
> 
> 8. EASTMAN Fine Grain Duplicating Panchromatic Negative Film 5234 / 7234
> 
> FDN452 / 16 mm x 2000 ft roll / On Core / 2R-2994 1959766 2 1-+ 375.06
> 
> 02/15/2009
> 
> 
> 
> In theory all 2 perf stocks are shippable anywhere but in practice
> 
> Kodak US/Canada do not seem to coordinate very well with Kodak UK.
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> 
> 
> Nicholas
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 6:44 AM, sarah browne _<sarahjbrowne at yahoo.ie>_ 
> (mailto:sarahjbrowne at yahoo.ie)  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone have any leads for double perf stock shippable to Ireland / UK?
> 
> 
> 
> Ardmore / Kodak, Fuji UK and filmclearance.co.uk have so far drawn a blank.
> 
> Tips very welcome!
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> Sarah
> 
> 
> 
> _www.sarahbrowne.info_ (http://www.sarahbrowne.info/) 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> FrameWorks mailing list
> 
> _FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com_ (mailto:FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com) 
> 
> _https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks_ 
> (https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks) 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> FrameWorks mailing list
> 
> _FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com_ (mailto:FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com) 
> 
> _https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks_ 
> (https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks) 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> FrameWorks mailing list
> _FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com_ (mailto:FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com) 
> _https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks_ 
> (https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks) 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> =
> 
> _______________________________________________
> FrameWorks  mailing  list
> FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com
> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
> 
> 
> 
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/pipermail/frameworks/attachments/20120124/b63c2f87/attachment-0001.html 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 13
> Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 09:53:12 -0500
> From: Nicholas Kovats <nkovats at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Frameworks] seeking double perf film
> To: Experimental Film Discussion List <frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com>
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAARfJiJarUgjczM7n2rqCRWPP1GbPp52UAuc92=eY=ouFaRbyw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> That would be Mr. Edward Nowill in the UK, i.e. edwardnowill at btinternet.com
> 
> His machine perf dies are setup for 2 perf 16mm to 2 perf
> R8...specifically 2R-2994 16mm to 2R-1497 R8. Acetate only. He charges
> approximately 40 GBP per 400 FT.
> 
> Attempting to punch single perf 16mm B Wind (1R-2994) would damage his
> dies and necessitate expensive replacement. This is a predominately
> "labour of love" niche service utilizing professional machines.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 12:06 AM, John Woods <jawoods01 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > There is apparently a guy in England that re-perfs 2R film for use as
> > regular 8. I don't see why you couldn't provide him with a single perf film
> > of your choice and he could then make into 2R film for you.
> >
> > His information is in this thread:
> >
> > http://www.filmshooting.com/scripts/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=22342
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: sarah browne <sarahjbrowne at yahoo.ie>
> > To: frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com
> > Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 3:44:36 AM
> > Subject: [Frameworks] seeking double perf film
> >
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > Anyone have any leads for double perf stock shippable to Ireland / UK?
> >
> > Ardmore / Kodak, Fuji UK and filmclearance.co.uk have so far drawn a blank.
> > Tips very welcome!
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Sarah
> >
> > www.sarahbrowne.info
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > FrameWorks mailing list
> > FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com
> > https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > FrameWorks mailing list
> > FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com
> > https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
> >
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 14
> Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 15:43:23 +0000
> From: Richard Ashrowan <richard at ashrowan.com>
> Subject: [Frameworks] Alchemy / James Whitney's Dwija (1973)
> To: frameworks at jonasmekasfilms.com
> Message-ID: <0A188FAD-7455-4850-8701-CAF35E38C135 at ashrowan.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> Is anyone aware of any available 16mm prints / DVD / VHS or online versions of James Whitney's 1973 'Dwija'? I would like to review it for my PhD research (related to alchemy in the moving image), and I may then see if I might be able to screen it. 
> 
> I have sent inquiry emails to CVM, the LA Film Forum,  the Academy Film Archive and Iota, but have yet to hear anything back. I cannot seem to find who actually has this film.
> 
> I would also be interested to hear any thoughts Frameworkers might have on films / filmmakers that deal consciously with ideas of alchemical transformation, from any era. 
> 
> Many thanks for your help
> 
> Richard Ashrowan
> richard at ashrowan.com
> Web: www.ashrowan.com
> Blog: http://richardashrowan.tumblr.com
> Alchemy: www.alchemyfilmfestival.org.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/pipermail/frameworks/attachments/20120124/405dc154/attachment.html 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> FrameWorks mailing list
> FrameWorks at jonasmekasfilms.com
> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
> 
> 
> End of FrameWorks Digest, Vol 20, Issue 30
> ******************************************
 		 	   		  
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/pipermail/frameworks/attachments/20120124/cf5a6549/attachment-0001.html 


More information about the FrameWorks mailing list